From Ruth Gledhill via TheTimesOnline (UK):
July 31, 2008
In a comment piece in tomorrow's Times, the Archbishop of Uganda, Henry Orombi, will accuse the Arcbishop of Canterbury of a betrayal at the very deepest level. [Editor's Note: the comment piece is posted below.] He will argue that even the Pope is elected by his peers, but Dr Williams in his office is little better than a remnant of colonialism. 'The spiritual leadership of a global communion of independent and autonomous Provinces should not be reduced to one man appointed by a secular government,' he says. Nor is the absence of Uganda, Nigeria and other Global South churches a sign that they want to leave the Communion. Far from it. It is a sign of how much they care that it endures. Read it all from when it goes online at 2100 BST and in the paper tomorrow, it is strong stuff!
Running parallel to the indaba groups in which sexuality is being debated is the Covenant and Windsor Continuation Group, which has drawn up plans for a Pastoral Forum. Here is Joanna Clegg's video of the press conference at which Bishop Clive Handford, retired bishop of Jerusalem, explained how far the bishops have got.
It all comes on a crucial day for Lambeth.
Archbishop of Kenya Benjamin Nzimbi has also made it clear today that there is no way he and his colleagues will cease their interventions in the US.
As I write, Peter Tatchell of Outrage has just got off the train at Canterbury and is running up the hill with his 40 foot banner, Stop Crucifying Queers, which he plans to stake out in the grass outside Rutherford College where the bishops are now enjoying one of their thrice-daily three-course meals.
Tatchell told me on his mobile: 'The Archbishop of Canterbury appears more interested in appeasing and accommodating homophobes than standing up for human rights of lebians and gay people. He is putting unity before compassion and justice.
'There should be no collusions with homophobic Anglican bishops like Peter Akinola and Henry Orombi who support the jailing of gay peopel and the banning of gay churches.
'Dr Williams would never appease a racist or anti-Semitic bishop. Why is he appeasing homophobes?'
It is likely that the liberal Christian groups such as Integrity will distance themselves from Tatchell though. Protesting with banners is not their style. Theirs is a more subtle approach.
Not like mine.
Yesterday, I was running round the campus asking bishops the question: 'When did you last beat your wife?' I'll explain why in my next blog. (Can it really be true that at the age of 48, married with a small child and living in Kew, I am at the historic seat of British Christianity asking bishops time and time again, what they think about gay sex and wife-beating? Am I in some strange dream? It is so embarrassing. What's gone wrong with my life?)
I met a bishop from Sudan. The Sudanese caught the attention of the world early on in the conference with their statement that Gene Robinson should resign.
'What are you planning to do now?' I asked the good bishop, meaning what cunning strategy did they have devised to make things go their way at Lambeth.
He looked at me thoughtfully.
'Now, we are planning to get on a train and go to London and go shopping with our eyes.'
I was not to be deterred.
'How has the Archbishop of Canterbury done here? What do you think of him?'
His eyes lit up.
'The Archbishop of Canterbury is like a saint. We are so impressed. We have never known anyone quite like him. He has had all these important people here, the Coptic archbishop, the Orthodox, the Chief Rabbi, all these Cardinals. Every time he puts them on the podium and lifts them up above himself. It is as if he is saying, listen to these people before you listen to me. Oh he is such a leader. He is a true Christian. He is so humble. His witness has been so powerful. That is the message we are taking back to Sudan.'
That is a snapshot from Lambeth today.
Thursday, July 31, 2008
ABp. Henry Luke Orombi: The Church cannot heal this crisis of betrayal
From The Times of London:
August 1, 2008
Those who violate biblical teaching must show repentance and regret before we can share communion with them
I love the Lord Jesus Christ, and I love the Anglican Communion. So, why did the bishops of the Church of Uganda and I decide not to attend the present Lambeth Conference? Because we love the Lord Jesus Christ and because we love the Anglican Communion.
St Francis of Assisi said: “Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary use words.” We believe that our absence at this Lambeth Conference is the only way that our voice will be heard. For more than ten years we have been speaking and have not been heard. So maybe our absence will speak louder than our words.
The crisis in the Communion is serious; our commitment to biblical and historic faith and mission are serious; and we want to be taken seriously. In 2003 the Episcopal Church in America consecrated as bishop a man living in an active homosexual relationship. This unilateral and unbiblical action was directly contrary to a resolution of the 1998 Lambeth Conference.
I participated in that conference and we overwhelmingly resolved that “homosexual practice is incompatible with Scripture” and the conference “cannot advise the legitimising of same-sex unions”. As a result, the 2003 action of the American Church plunged the Anglican Communion into a crisis that, as the primates of the Anglican Communion said in 2003, “tore the very fabric of our communion at its deepest level”. The crisis is about authority - biblical authority and ecclesiastical authority.
The American decision disregarded biblical authority by violating clear biblical teaching against homosexual behaviour. For this reason, the Church of Uganda and other Anglican provinces broke communion with the Episcopal Church in America in 2003, and we continue in that state of broken communion today.
Even though some scholars have tried to explain away specific biblical passages that refer to homosexual practice, the fact remains that nowhere in Scripture is homosexual practice affirmed or presented as a legitimate alternative to heterosexual relationships.
In every case, homosexual practice is considered sinful - something that breaks our relationship with God and harms our wellbeing. It is something for which one should repent and seek forgiveness and healing, which God is ever ready to do. Not only is Scripture to be taken seriously, but it is to be obeyed, because God intends for us things far better than we could ask or imagine.
If a whole province, such as the Episcopal Church, acts contrary to God's word and the consensus of the communion, who in the Anglican Communion has the authority to discipline that erring province?
We in the Global South believed the Primates' Meeting had this authority - the 1988 Lambeth Conference urged the Primates' Meeting to “exercise an enhanced responsibility in offering guidance on doctrinal, moral and pastoral matters” and the 1998 Lambeth Conference reaffirmed this.
So, it was appropriate, after the American decision in 2003, that the Archbishop of Canterbury convened an emergency meeting of the primates to address the biblical and ecclesiastical crisis into which the Americans had plunged the Anglican Communion. The primates, including the American primate, unanimously advised that the consecration should not proceed. Nonetheless, two weeks later, the primate in America presided at the consecration as bishop of a man living in a same-sex relationship. This was a deep betrayal.
Since that meeting there have been numerous other “betrayals” to the extent that it is now hard to believe that the leadership in the American Church means what it says. They say that they are not authorising blessings of same-sex unions, yet we read newspaper reports of them. Two American bishops have even presided at such services of blessings. Bishops have written diocesan policies on the blessings of same-sex unions. It is simply untrue to say they have not been authorised.
That such blessings continue and seem to be increasing hardly demonstrates “regret”, let alone repentance, on the part of the American Church. So, when the Archbishop of Canterbury invited these American bishops to participate in the Lambeth Conference, against the recommendations of the Windsor Report and the Primates' Meeting, and in the face of the unrelenting commitment of the American Church to bless sinful behaviour, we were stunned. Further betrayal.
It was clear to me and to our House of Bishops that the Instruments of Communion had utterly failed us.
Anglicans may say there are four “Instruments of Communion,” (the Archbishop of Canterbury; the Lambeth Conference; the Anglican Consultative Council and the Primates' Meeting). But de facto, there is only one - the Archbishop of Canterbury.
The peculiar thing is that this one man, who is at the centre of the communion's structures, is not even elected by his peers. Even the Pope is elected by his peers, but what Anglicans have is a man appointed by a secular government. Over the past five years, we have come to see this as a remnant of British colonialism, and it is not serving us well. The spiritual leadership of a global communion of independent and autonomous provinces should not be reduced to one man appointed by a secular government.
It is important that our decision not to attend this Lambeth Conference is not misunderstood as withdrawing from the Anglican Communion. On the contrary, our decision reflects the depth of our concern and the sober realisation that the present structures are not capable of addressing the crisis.
How can we go to Holy Communion, sit in Bible study groups, and share meals together, pretending that everything is OK?, that we are still in fellowship with the persistent violators of biblical teaching and of Lambeth resolutions?
The Bible says: “Can two walk together unless they are agreed?” The Archbishop of Canterbury has asked us to “wait for each other”. But how is it possible when we are not travelling in the same direction?
The Church of Uganda takes its Anglican identity and the future hope of the global Anglican Communion very seriously. We love the Lord Jesus Christ, and we love the Anglican Communion. Lord, have mercy upon us.
The Most Rev Henry Luke Orombi is Archbishop of the Church of Uganda
August 1, 2008
Those who violate biblical teaching must show repentance and regret before we can share communion with them
I love the Lord Jesus Christ, and I love the Anglican Communion. So, why did the bishops of the Church of Uganda and I decide not to attend the present Lambeth Conference? Because we love the Lord Jesus Christ and because we love the Anglican Communion.
St Francis of Assisi said: “Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary use words.” We believe that our absence at this Lambeth Conference is the only way that our voice will be heard. For more than ten years we have been speaking and have not been heard. So maybe our absence will speak louder than our words.
The crisis in the Communion is serious; our commitment to biblical and historic faith and mission are serious; and we want to be taken seriously. In 2003 the Episcopal Church in America consecrated as bishop a man living in an active homosexual relationship. This unilateral and unbiblical action was directly contrary to a resolution of the 1998 Lambeth Conference.
I participated in that conference and we overwhelmingly resolved that “homosexual practice is incompatible with Scripture” and the conference “cannot advise the legitimising of same-sex unions”. As a result, the 2003 action of the American Church plunged the Anglican Communion into a crisis that, as the primates of the Anglican Communion said in 2003, “tore the very fabric of our communion at its deepest level”. The crisis is about authority - biblical authority and ecclesiastical authority.
The American decision disregarded biblical authority by violating clear biblical teaching against homosexual behaviour. For this reason, the Church of Uganda and other Anglican provinces broke communion with the Episcopal Church in America in 2003, and we continue in that state of broken communion today.
Even though some scholars have tried to explain away specific biblical passages that refer to homosexual practice, the fact remains that nowhere in Scripture is homosexual practice affirmed or presented as a legitimate alternative to heterosexual relationships.
In every case, homosexual practice is considered sinful - something that breaks our relationship with God and harms our wellbeing. It is something for which one should repent and seek forgiveness and healing, which God is ever ready to do. Not only is Scripture to be taken seriously, but it is to be obeyed, because God intends for us things far better than we could ask or imagine.
If a whole province, such as the Episcopal Church, acts contrary to God's word and the consensus of the communion, who in the Anglican Communion has the authority to discipline that erring province?
We in the Global South believed the Primates' Meeting had this authority - the 1988 Lambeth Conference urged the Primates' Meeting to “exercise an enhanced responsibility in offering guidance on doctrinal, moral and pastoral matters” and the 1998 Lambeth Conference reaffirmed this.
So, it was appropriate, after the American decision in 2003, that the Archbishop of Canterbury convened an emergency meeting of the primates to address the biblical and ecclesiastical crisis into which the Americans had plunged the Anglican Communion. The primates, including the American primate, unanimously advised that the consecration should not proceed. Nonetheless, two weeks later, the primate in America presided at the consecration as bishop of a man living in a same-sex relationship. This was a deep betrayal.
Since that meeting there have been numerous other “betrayals” to the extent that it is now hard to believe that the leadership in the American Church means what it says. They say that they are not authorising blessings of same-sex unions, yet we read newspaper reports of them. Two American bishops have even presided at such services of blessings. Bishops have written diocesan policies on the blessings of same-sex unions. It is simply untrue to say they have not been authorised.
That such blessings continue and seem to be increasing hardly demonstrates “regret”, let alone repentance, on the part of the American Church. So, when the Archbishop of Canterbury invited these American bishops to participate in the Lambeth Conference, against the recommendations of the Windsor Report and the Primates' Meeting, and in the face of the unrelenting commitment of the American Church to bless sinful behaviour, we were stunned. Further betrayal.
It was clear to me and to our House of Bishops that the Instruments of Communion had utterly failed us.
Anglicans may say there are four “Instruments of Communion,” (the Archbishop of Canterbury; the Lambeth Conference; the Anglican Consultative Council and the Primates' Meeting). But de facto, there is only one - the Archbishop of Canterbury.
The peculiar thing is that this one man, who is at the centre of the communion's structures, is not even elected by his peers. Even the Pope is elected by his peers, but what Anglicans have is a man appointed by a secular government. Over the past five years, we have come to see this as a remnant of British colonialism, and it is not serving us well. The spiritual leadership of a global communion of independent and autonomous provinces should not be reduced to one man appointed by a secular government.
It is important that our decision not to attend this Lambeth Conference is not misunderstood as withdrawing from the Anglican Communion. On the contrary, our decision reflects the depth of our concern and the sober realisation that the present structures are not capable of addressing the crisis.
How can we go to Holy Communion, sit in Bible study groups, and share meals together, pretending that everything is OK?, that we are still in fellowship with the persistent violators of biblical teaching and of Lambeth resolutions?
The Bible says: “Can two walk together unless they are agreed?” The Archbishop of Canterbury has asked us to “wait for each other”. But how is it possible when we are not travelling in the same direction?
The Church of Uganda takes its Anglican identity and the future hope of the global Anglican Communion very seriously. We love the Lord Jesus Christ, and we love the Anglican Communion. Lord, have mercy upon us.
The Most Rev Henry Luke Orombi is Archbishop of the Church of Uganda
From Stephen Lane, Bishop of Maine
From Letters from Lambeth via TitusOneNine:
Thursday, July 31, 2008
A Small Explosion
As the end of the Lambeth Conference approaches, anxieties are rising and there are more and more frequent expressions of concern that Lambeth isn't going to do anything. Many folks are saying that Lambeth needs to say something robust or definitive.
This morning there was a small explosion in my Indaba group. What exploded was widespread frustration that all the talk about our disagreements distracts from mission and undermines the Communion's credibility. The real issues, the real priorities of the Anglican Communion, need to be poverty, hunger, HIV/AIDS, the oppression of women and children, the oppression of the Dalits in India, war, refugees, care for creation, etc. (Indeed, if there is a consensus at this Lambeth it is that global warming is the most important matter facing humankind and that care for creation must be a first priority for the Church.) Most of the members of my group shared in some part of this frustration.
Like most explosions , however, this one was unfocused and it soon spread into chastising the Episcopal Church for creating all the disagreement in the Anglican Communion and keeping it going. The Episcopal Church was repeatedly charged with not responding to the Windsor process. The actions of our General Convention 2006 in responding to Windsor are not well known and are often received as new information.
[Editor's Note: No, the actions of GC06 are known and have been judged inadequate.]
The Episcopal bishops in my Indaba received this critique in respectful silence, without defensiveness, and responses actually came from other churches. The gist of the responses was that all of us are shaped in our ministries by the people and culture of our communities. Each of us is struggling to be faithful as God has given us the light. So there were voices of support, but it was a long session.
At hearings and other meetings today, there were calls to reaffirm Lambeth 1:10 or to state that the Windsor moratoria must continue. The Archbishop of Canterbury has said that there will be no voting or legislation. Rather the work of the Indaba groups will be drawn into a final statement that will be refined by an ongoing process of review in our groups and in hearings. Other processes, such as the Windsor Continuation process and the Anglican Covenant process will continue beyond this meeting. For me, the best part of this Lambeth has been the frank, respectful, and sometimes profound conversations of the Bible Study and Indaba groups. I hope we'll find ways to continue these conversations without forcing a decision now.
For all this, the work of building relationships continues. And daily worship refreshes and strengthens. Tonight the Church of Aoroatea, New Zealand and Polynesia led us in Night Prayer according to the New Zealand Prayerbook. The words and hymns fell like healing rain on a tired congregation of bishops and spouses.
Peace,
+Steve
Thursday, July 31, 2008
A Small Explosion
As the end of the Lambeth Conference approaches, anxieties are rising and there are more and more frequent expressions of concern that Lambeth isn't going to do anything. Many folks are saying that Lambeth needs to say something robust or definitive.
This morning there was a small explosion in my Indaba group. What exploded was widespread frustration that all the talk about our disagreements distracts from mission and undermines the Communion's credibility. The real issues, the real priorities of the Anglican Communion, need to be poverty, hunger, HIV/AIDS, the oppression of women and children, the oppression of the Dalits in India, war, refugees, care for creation, etc. (Indeed, if there is a consensus at this Lambeth it is that global warming is the most important matter facing humankind and that care for creation must be a first priority for the Church.) Most of the members of my group shared in some part of this frustration.
Like most explosions , however, this one was unfocused and it soon spread into chastising the Episcopal Church for creating all the disagreement in the Anglican Communion and keeping it going. The Episcopal Church was repeatedly charged with not responding to the Windsor process. The actions of our General Convention 2006 in responding to Windsor are not well known and are often received as new information.
[Editor's Note: No, the actions of GC06 are known and have been judged inadequate.]
The Episcopal bishops in my Indaba received this critique in respectful silence, without defensiveness, and responses actually came from other churches. The gist of the responses was that all of us are shaped in our ministries by the people and culture of our communities. Each of us is struggling to be faithful as God has given us the light. So there were voices of support, but it was a long session.
At hearings and other meetings today, there were calls to reaffirm Lambeth 1:10 or to state that the Windsor moratoria must continue. The Archbishop of Canterbury has said that there will be no voting or legislation. Rather the work of the Indaba groups will be drawn into a final statement that will be refined by an ongoing process of review in our groups and in hearings. Other processes, such as the Windsor Continuation process and the Anglican Covenant process will continue beyond this meeting. For me, the best part of this Lambeth has been the frank, respectful, and sometimes profound conversations of the Bible Study and Indaba groups. I hope we'll find ways to continue these conversations without forcing a decision now.
For all this, the work of building relationships continues. And daily worship refreshes and strengthens. Tonight the Church of Aoroatea, New Zealand and Polynesia led us in Night Prayer according to the New Zealand Prayerbook. The words and hymns fell like healing rain on a tired congregation of bishops and spouses.
Peace,
+Steve
New Commission proposed to save the Communion
From Religious Intelligence:
Thursday, 31st July 2008. 3:31pm
By Andrew Carey.
A renewed plan for moratoria on same sex blessings, gay consecrations and cross border interventions were outlined at the Lambeth Conference earlier this week.
Together with plans for a Faith and Order Commission, a Pastoral Forum, a safe-space for parishes under overseas oversight until they can be reunited with provincial bodies, the Windsor Continuation Group drip-fed their recommendations into the Conference with a series of three special hearings. Yet American and Canadian Bishops told a hearing this week that dioceses were openly authorizing and allowing same sex blessings and did not intend to stop. Of the African Primates who have crossed borders into the United States to consecrate American missionary bishops, none of them are in attendance at the Lambeth Conference to respond in person to the call for a moratorium on their actions.
The road testing of proposals by the Windsor Continuation Group has met significant resistance in the conference. Liberal US bishops have dominated the hearings, according to participants. “I would have liked to see something a little more positive and less punitive,” said Bishop Kirk Smith of Arizona.
Bishop Michael Ingham of Canada slammed the proposals as a ‘non-starter’ for his diocese, New Westminster, which was the first in 2002 to go ahead with authorizing same sex blessings.
The Windsor Report, he argued, was not an agreed policy, or a doctrine within the Communion. “And yet the Windsor Report is being introduced today as an agreed benchmark from which it is assumed we can move forward. This is not so.” He also slammed the Group’s proposals as ‘punitive in tone’ and argued they entrenched the principle of outside interventions.
Proposals for a Faith and Order Commission, and a Pastoral Forum have all been trialled together with the renewed calls for moratoria. The group’s chairman, Clive Handford, former Primate of Jerusalem and the Middle East, spelled out clearly that the reflections, were just that, not a report. A final report incorporating the contributions of bishops at Lambeth will go to the Archbishop of Canterbury in the Spring in time for debate at the Anglican Consultative Council in Jamaica.
Bishop Handford said that the proposed Pastoral Forum, together with the moratoria, would create a breathing space amid the divisive conflict over homosexuality since the consecration of Bishop Gene Robinson of New Hampshire in 2003. The Forum would be set up rapidly under the presidency of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the chairmanship of a bishop to help resolve crisis situations as they arise.
The forum would create a ‘holding bay’ for those parishes or dioceses which have already broken away under the leadership of overseas primates, until they could be reconciled through negotiation with their parent churches. Members of the Forum representing the diversity of theological views would travel and offer pastoral advice in “conflicted, confused and fragile situations.”
The scheme was compared to extended family care for children in dysfunctional nuclear families, or with ‘escrow’ accounts which are created to hold monies in trust for their rightful owner on completion of certain undertakings. The Windsor Continuation Group said of moratoria called for in the original Windsor Report of 2004, that these requests had been “less than wholeheartedly embraced on both sides.”
"If the three moratoria are not observed the Communion is likely to fracture. The patterns of [current] actions could lead to irreparable damage." On the question of whether the moratoria should be restrospective, Bishop Handford, argued that Bishop Gene Robinson would not be required to resign, but that any parishes or dioceses which had come under oversight from the Provinces of Southern Cone, Kenya, Uganda and Nigeria, should come into the proposed ‘holding bay’ of the Pastoral Forum.
Thursday, 31st July 2008. 3:31pm
By Andrew Carey.
A renewed plan for moratoria on same sex blessings, gay consecrations and cross border interventions were outlined at the Lambeth Conference earlier this week.
Together with plans for a Faith and Order Commission, a Pastoral Forum, a safe-space for parishes under overseas oversight until they can be reunited with provincial bodies, the Windsor Continuation Group drip-fed their recommendations into the Conference with a series of three special hearings. Yet American and Canadian Bishops told a hearing this week that dioceses were openly authorizing and allowing same sex blessings and did not intend to stop. Of the African Primates who have crossed borders into the United States to consecrate American missionary bishops, none of them are in attendance at the Lambeth Conference to respond in person to the call for a moratorium on their actions.
The road testing of proposals by the Windsor Continuation Group has met significant resistance in the conference. Liberal US bishops have dominated the hearings, according to participants. “I would have liked to see something a little more positive and less punitive,” said Bishop Kirk Smith of Arizona.
Bishop Michael Ingham of Canada slammed the proposals as a ‘non-starter’ for his diocese, New Westminster, which was the first in 2002 to go ahead with authorizing same sex blessings.
The Windsor Report, he argued, was not an agreed policy, or a doctrine within the Communion. “And yet the Windsor Report is being introduced today as an agreed benchmark from which it is assumed we can move forward. This is not so.” He also slammed the Group’s proposals as ‘punitive in tone’ and argued they entrenched the principle of outside interventions.
Proposals for a Faith and Order Commission, and a Pastoral Forum have all been trialled together with the renewed calls for moratoria. The group’s chairman, Clive Handford, former Primate of Jerusalem and the Middle East, spelled out clearly that the reflections, were just that, not a report. A final report incorporating the contributions of bishops at Lambeth will go to the Archbishop of Canterbury in the Spring in time for debate at the Anglican Consultative Council in Jamaica.
Bishop Handford said that the proposed Pastoral Forum, together with the moratoria, would create a breathing space amid the divisive conflict over homosexuality since the consecration of Bishop Gene Robinson of New Hampshire in 2003. The Forum would be set up rapidly under the presidency of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the chairmanship of a bishop to help resolve crisis situations as they arise.
The forum would create a ‘holding bay’ for those parishes or dioceses which have already broken away under the leadership of overseas primates, until they could be reconciled through negotiation with their parent churches. Members of the Forum representing the diversity of theological views would travel and offer pastoral advice in “conflicted, confused and fragile situations.”
The scheme was compared to extended family care for children in dysfunctional nuclear families, or with ‘escrow’ accounts which are created to hold monies in trust for their rightful owner on completion of certain undertakings. The Windsor Continuation Group said of moratoria called for in the original Windsor Report of 2004, that these requests had been “less than wholeheartedly embraced on both sides.”
"If the three moratoria are not observed the Communion is likely to fracture. The patterns of [current] actions could lead to irreparable damage." On the question of whether the moratoria should be restrospective, Bishop Handford, argued that Bishop Gene Robinson would not be required to resign, but that any parishes or dioceses which had come under oversight from the Provinces of Southern Cone, Kenya, Uganda and Nigeria, should come into the proposed ‘holding bay’ of the Pastoral Forum.
Rabbi pleas for Anglican Unity
From Religious Intelligence:
Thursday, 31st July 2008. 3:24pm
By Andrew Carey.
A passionate plea for Anglican unity was issued on Monday night by Britain’s chief rabbi, Sir Jonathan Sachs, in an act he described as Jewish ‘chutzpah’.
“Every faith has cracks and schisms. But the Anglican Church has held radically different people together more graciously and successfully over many hundreds of years than any other western religion I know. I view it with wonder, awe and admiration,” he declared.
“You must hold together for the future, for it’s your ability to hold together in a world driving people apart that is your unique contribution to a landscape of hope.”
The heartfelt call for unity from a Jewish leader, was the first time in which a Chief Rabbi had addressed a Lambeth Conference plenary despite the fact that the Council of Christians and Jews was formed in 1942 by Archbishop William Temple and Chief Rabbi, J.H Hertz.
His lecture on covenant was greeted by two emotional standing ovations, as he outlined a history of Jewish covenant theology and issued a call for urgent co-operation among the faiths, to address the threats of violence, and environmental catastrophe. “We are living through one of the most fateful ages of change since homo sapiens first set foot on the earth,” he said, pointing to the threat to the integrity of creation signaled by global warming. “We must honour our covenant with future generations that they will inherit a world in which it is possible to live. That is the call of God in our time.” He argued that the prior covenant in the Hebrew scriptures was a covenant of fate represented by Noah and the rainbow, followed by the Abrahamic covenant of faith.
The covenant of fate, he said, had three dimensions: the sanctity of human life, the integrity of creation, and the ‘dignity of difference’. “At the very moment that covenants of faith are splitting apart, the covenant of fate is forcing us together – and we have not yet proved equal to it.” He continued, “All three elements of the global covenant are in danger. The sanctity of human life is being desecrated by terror. The integrity of creation is threatened by environmental catastrophe. Respect for diversity is imperiled by what one writer has called the clash of civilizations.” The crisis, he said called adherents of all faiths to walk closer together, extending friendship and joint action more widely.
In a moving remembrance of the holocaust and centuries of pain inflicted by Christians on the Jews, he paid tribute to the redemption of the past suffering when the Council of Christians and Jews came into being in 1942.
“Since then, Jews and Christians have done more to mend their relationship than any other two religions on earth, so that today we meet as beloved friends.” He said this example of reconciliation, “must show the world another way: honouring humanity as God’s image, protecting the environment as God’s work, respecting diversity as God’s will and keeping the covenant as God’s word.”
Every faith, being particular, has cracks and schisms. But the Anglican Church has held radically different people together more graciously and successfully over many hundred years than any other Western religion I know. I view it with wonder, awe, and admiration.
Your ability to hold together in a world driving people apart is your gift to a landscape of hope. Jonathan Sachs
You’re a wonderful Church –
You must hold together for the future, for it’s your ability to hold together in a world driving people apart that is your unique contribution to a landscape of hope.
Thursday, 31st July 2008. 3:24pm
By Andrew Carey.
A passionate plea for Anglican unity was issued on Monday night by Britain’s chief rabbi, Sir Jonathan Sachs, in an act he described as Jewish ‘chutzpah’.
“Every faith has cracks and schisms. But the Anglican Church has held radically different people together more graciously and successfully over many hundreds of years than any other western religion I know. I view it with wonder, awe and admiration,” he declared.
“You must hold together for the future, for it’s your ability to hold together in a world driving people apart that is your unique contribution to a landscape of hope.”
The heartfelt call for unity from a Jewish leader, was the first time in which a Chief Rabbi had addressed a Lambeth Conference plenary despite the fact that the Council of Christians and Jews was formed in 1942 by Archbishop William Temple and Chief Rabbi, J.H Hertz.
His lecture on covenant was greeted by two emotional standing ovations, as he outlined a history of Jewish covenant theology and issued a call for urgent co-operation among the faiths, to address the threats of violence, and environmental catastrophe. “We are living through one of the most fateful ages of change since homo sapiens first set foot on the earth,” he said, pointing to the threat to the integrity of creation signaled by global warming. “We must honour our covenant with future generations that they will inherit a world in which it is possible to live. That is the call of God in our time.” He argued that the prior covenant in the Hebrew scriptures was a covenant of fate represented by Noah and the rainbow, followed by the Abrahamic covenant of faith.
The covenant of fate, he said, had three dimensions: the sanctity of human life, the integrity of creation, and the ‘dignity of difference’. “At the very moment that covenants of faith are splitting apart, the covenant of fate is forcing us together – and we have not yet proved equal to it.” He continued, “All three elements of the global covenant are in danger. The sanctity of human life is being desecrated by terror. The integrity of creation is threatened by environmental catastrophe. Respect for diversity is imperiled by what one writer has called the clash of civilizations.” The crisis, he said called adherents of all faiths to walk closer together, extending friendship and joint action more widely.
In a moving remembrance of the holocaust and centuries of pain inflicted by Christians on the Jews, he paid tribute to the redemption of the past suffering when the Council of Christians and Jews came into being in 1942.
“Since then, Jews and Christians have done more to mend their relationship than any other two religions on earth, so that today we meet as beloved friends.” He said this example of reconciliation, “must show the world another way: honouring humanity as God’s image, protecting the environment as God’s work, respecting diversity as God’s will and keeping the covenant as God’s word.”
Every faith, being particular, has cracks and schisms. But the Anglican Church has held radically different people together more graciously and successfully over many hundred years than any other Western religion I know. I view it with wonder, awe, and admiration.
Your ability to hold together in a world driving people apart is your gift to a landscape of hope. Jonathan Sachs
You’re a wonderful Church –
You must hold together for the future, for it’s your ability to hold together in a world driving people apart that is your unique contribution to a landscape of hope.
LAMBETH: "Another Gospel?" Asks Sudanese Bishop
By Hans Zeiger in Canterbury
www.virtueonline.org
July 31, 2008
CANTERBURY-A bishop from the Sudan told VirtueOnline on Thursday that the question confronting Anglicans in his country is whether the West is "bringing another gospel, or the same Gospel it brought before?" Bishop Paul Yugusuk from southern Sudan also said that Sudanese Anglicans must be aware of their vulnerabilities so that they do not "give in to homosexuality."
"We come here with a very clear stand," said Yugusuk, echoing the words of his Archbishop, the Most Rev. Daniel Deng Bul, of last week. "Sin is sin."
Yugusuk said that he came to Canterbury out of love for the Communion. "We are not cutting the relationship. They should change from the way they are thinking to the Biblical way. God loves sinners. We are all sinners. We are all praying together, because the mission is not ours. We have to reach the unreached."
As an advocate for evangelism, Yugusuk suggested that his ministry in the Sudan is the continuation of Western missionary efforts. "This Gospel has been brought to us by the West. We are deep rooted in that. The question is here: Is the West bringing another gospel, or the same Gospel it brought before?"
Since Sudanese Christians have accepted monogamous marriage between a man and a woman as their standard, and have taken a hard stand against polygamy in their country, Yugusuk hopes to encourage his fellow bishops to maintain a Biblical standard.
Yugusuk said that he attended the Global Anglican Future Conference in the Holy Land last month, but he and the other bishops of his province decided to come to Lambeth because of their love for the Communion. They want to genuinely listen, and "perhaps we can be even of help."
The bishop explained, "If you tell your brother that he is wrong, you love him. But if you keep quiet, you don't love him." Yugusuk added his hope that differences in the Communion can be worked out. "We are here to reason together....Being together is an expression of love, no matter how you agree or disagree. Despite our differences, we still hold hands."
Yugusuk advised The Episcopal Church to work out its own challenges and not to burden the entire Anglican Communion with its problems. "We have our own problems. We deal with them there and then, so it's not affecting the whole Communion. What is sin is sin. What is wrong is wrong."
When Sudanese Christians have confronted the problem of polygamy, they have dealt with it in a loving, forgiving way while preaching against sin. "That is in Africa. But it is not an issue for the whole religious set-up. We have dealt with it and it is over."
Likewise, "Americans should deal with their problems there, and it is over."
Yugusuk said that Anglicans in the Sudan will not compromise their principles for the sake of Western-sponsored relief. "In my country, we are not poor," Yugusuk said, saying that God's Word is prospering in the Sudan. Nevertheless, he said that the issue of war in the Sudan ought "to be discussed just like other issues."
Given the current situation in the Sudan, Sudanese Christians should be aware of their own vulnerabilities so that they are not tricked into compromising their integrity by outsiders who promise aid. "Because we know why we are vulnerable, that's why we cannot give in to homosexuality," he said. "If you don't know why you are vulnerable, you can give in to any idea, even money."
And if the Anglican Communion gives in to homosexuality even after gestures of brotherly love, he said, "We part company. We are here so that we don't part company. It is really sad for the Communion to be torn apart because of one thing: human desire."
END
www.virtueonline.org
July 31, 2008
CANTERBURY-A bishop from the Sudan told VirtueOnline on Thursday that the question confronting Anglicans in his country is whether the West is "bringing another gospel, or the same Gospel it brought before?" Bishop Paul Yugusuk from southern Sudan also said that Sudanese Anglicans must be aware of their vulnerabilities so that they do not "give in to homosexuality."
"We come here with a very clear stand," said Yugusuk, echoing the words of his Archbishop, the Most Rev. Daniel Deng Bul, of last week. "Sin is sin."
Yugusuk said that he came to Canterbury out of love for the Communion. "We are not cutting the relationship. They should change from the way they are thinking to the Biblical way. God loves sinners. We are all sinners. We are all praying together, because the mission is not ours. We have to reach the unreached."
As an advocate for evangelism, Yugusuk suggested that his ministry in the Sudan is the continuation of Western missionary efforts. "This Gospel has been brought to us by the West. We are deep rooted in that. The question is here: Is the West bringing another gospel, or the same Gospel it brought before?"
Since Sudanese Christians have accepted monogamous marriage between a man and a woman as their standard, and have taken a hard stand against polygamy in their country, Yugusuk hopes to encourage his fellow bishops to maintain a Biblical standard.
Yugusuk said that he attended the Global Anglican Future Conference in the Holy Land last month, but he and the other bishops of his province decided to come to Lambeth because of their love for the Communion. They want to genuinely listen, and "perhaps we can be even of help."
The bishop explained, "If you tell your brother that he is wrong, you love him. But if you keep quiet, you don't love him." Yugusuk added his hope that differences in the Communion can be worked out. "We are here to reason together....Being together is an expression of love, no matter how you agree or disagree. Despite our differences, we still hold hands."
Yugusuk advised The Episcopal Church to work out its own challenges and not to burden the entire Anglican Communion with its problems. "We have our own problems. We deal with them there and then, so it's not affecting the whole Communion. What is sin is sin. What is wrong is wrong."
When Sudanese Christians have confronted the problem of polygamy, they have dealt with it in a loving, forgiving way while preaching against sin. "That is in Africa. But it is not an issue for the whole religious set-up. We have dealt with it and it is over."
Likewise, "Americans should deal with their problems there, and it is over."
Yugusuk said that Anglicans in the Sudan will not compromise their principles for the sake of Western-sponsored relief. "In my country, we are not poor," Yugusuk said, saying that God's Word is prospering in the Sudan. Nevertheless, he said that the issue of war in the Sudan ought "to be discussed just like other issues."
Given the current situation in the Sudan, Sudanese Christians should be aware of their own vulnerabilities so that they are not tricked into compromising their integrity by outsiders who promise aid. "Because we know why we are vulnerable, that's why we cannot give in to homosexuality," he said. "If you don't know why you are vulnerable, you can give in to any idea, even money."
And if the Anglican Communion gives in to homosexuality even after gestures of brotherly love, he said, "We part company. We are here so that we don't part company. It is really sad for the Communion to be torn apart because of one thing: human desire."
END
About DCNY
This blog was started in 2005 in response to Bishop Skip Adams' campaign to do ecclesiatical harm to Father David Bollinger. At the time, the diocese had spent thousands of dollars on a public relations consultant to advise them, particularly the bishop, as they sought to defrock Fr. Bollinger. I started this blog in support of Fr. Bollinger in what I saw as the unjust actions of the Diocese of Central New York. My view was vindicated by the dismissal by the Ecclesiastical Court of the DCNY of all charges against Fr. Bollinger and his reinstatement as a priest in good standing in the Episcopal Church.
Before I started this, Bp. Skip had shut down diomail, a diocesan listserv, because he didn't like some of the viewpoints posted there. The DCNY blog started out as an alternative to the p.r. of the DCNY, and has since widened to include being an alternative to the p.r. of pecusa and the Anglican Communion. As can be seen by a perusal of the monthly Episcopal Life, the official news sources like the Episcopal News Service (ENS) are highly biased. What they publish and print is more on the order of public relations than objective news reporting.
The blog DCNY is now an alternative source for news, particularly for those in the DCNY, but also for our other readers. DCNY seeks to be a counterbalance to the biased coverage offered by ENS and the Anglican Communion News Service. I have found that the readership of this blog, while not approaching the level of Stand Firm or TitusOneNine, is an interesting bunch. Top pecusa liberals bop in here at least on occasion as evidenced by the comments they leave. In the last week a Common Cause Partnership bishop was here as well. As we embark on our next thousand blog entries, we'll keep offering up top stories from many news sources as the realignment of North American Anglicanism continues.
Before I started this, Bp. Skip had shut down diomail, a diocesan listserv, because he didn't like some of the viewpoints posted there. The DCNY blog started out as an alternative to the p.r. of the DCNY, and has since widened to include being an alternative to the p.r. of pecusa and the Anglican Communion. As can be seen by a perusal of the monthly Episcopal Life, the official news sources like the Episcopal News Service (ENS) are highly biased. What they publish and print is more on the order of public relations than objective news reporting.
The blog DCNY is now an alternative source for news, particularly for those in the DCNY, but also for our other readers. DCNY seeks to be a counterbalance to the biased coverage offered by ENS and the Anglican Communion News Service. I have found that the readership of this blog, while not approaching the level of Stand Firm or TitusOneNine, is an interesting bunch. Top pecusa liberals bop in here at least on occasion as evidenced by the comments they leave. In the last week a Common Cause Partnership bishop was here as well. As we embark on our next thousand blog entries, we'll keep offering up top stories from many news sources as the realignment of North American Anglicanism continues.
The Episcopalian superiority complex
From The Guardian (UK):
There is a nasty whiff of colonial attitudes when Anglican liberals cast African Evangelicals as backward and uncivilised
All comments (71)
by Riazat Butt
The US Episcopal church is hailed among liberals for its inclusiveness towards women and homosexuals – and it has angered conservative evangelicals in the Anglican communion for the same reason. Yesterday, however, one of the US church's shining lights succeeded where the archbishop of Canterbury has so far failed – in uniting people, even if it was in outrage, following her claim that people from ethnic minorities beat their wives.
The Right Rev Catherine Roskam, suffragan bishop of New York, with a responsibility for 66 congregations, said domestic violence was culturally acceptable in some parts of the world and that "even the most devout Christians" were guilty of it. In an article in the Lambeth Witness, a daily newsletter produced during the conference by a campaign group Inclusive Church Network, she wrote:
"We have 700 men here.
"Do you think any of them beat their wives? Chances are they do. The most devout Christians beat their wives.
"Culturally, many of our bishops come from places where it is culturally accepted to beat your wife. In that regard, it makes the conversation quite difficult."
Delegates at Canterbury have been upset at her suggestion that bishops beat their wives, with some saying it is impossible for a man of the cloth even to consider such a thing. But this counterclaim is equally ridiculous: holy orders are no bar to perpetrating violence against others.
What bishops should be more concerned about is her insinuation that a non-white culture leads to domestic violence and that white, western culture is too civilised and too advanced to allow such atrocities to occur. Roskam fails to recognise that domestic violence affects people regardless of their class, ethnicity, religion, gender or geography.
But perhaps bishops should not be surprised by her attitude, which has echoes in an incident from the previous Lambeth conference in 1998, when another American bishop claimed African Christians had only just developed from believing that rocks and trees have spirits and did not understand modern science. This rhetoric, and the underlying assertion of superiority, plays into the hands of conservative evangelicals who are fed up with colonialist attitudes, but also of people who argue that religion, its followers and leaders are backwards and irrelevant.
There is a nasty whiff of colonial attitudes when Anglican liberals cast African Evangelicals as backward and uncivilised
All comments (71)
by Riazat Butt
The US Episcopal church is hailed among liberals for its inclusiveness towards women and homosexuals – and it has angered conservative evangelicals in the Anglican communion for the same reason. Yesterday, however, one of the US church's shining lights succeeded where the archbishop of Canterbury has so far failed – in uniting people, even if it was in outrage, following her claim that people from ethnic minorities beat their wives.
The Right Rev Catherine Roskam, suffragan bishop of New York, with a responsibility for 66 congregations, said domestic violence was culturally acceptable in some parts of the world and that "even the most devout Christians" were guilty of it. In an article in the Lambeth Witness, a daily newsletter produced during the conference by a campaign group Inclusive Church Network, she wrote:
"We have 700 men here.
"Do you think any of them beat their wives? Chances are they do. The most devout Christians beat their wives.
"Culturally, many of our bishops come from places where it is culturally accepted to beat your wife. In that regard, it makes the conversation quite difficult."
Delegates at Canterbury have been upset at her suggestion that bishops beat their wives, with some saying it is impossible for a man of the cloth even to consider such a thing. But this counterclaim is equally ridiculous: holy orders are no bar to perpetrating violence against others.
What bishops should be more concerned about is her insinuation that a non-white culture leads to domestic violence and that white, western culture is too civilised and too advanced to allow such atrocities to occur. Roskam fails to recognise that domestic violence affects people regardless of their class, ethnicity, religion, gender or geography.
But perhaps bishops should not be surprised by her attitude, which has echoes in an incident from the previous Lambeth conference in 1998, when another American bishop claimed African Christians had only just developed from believing that rocks and trees have spirits and did not understand modern science. This rhetoric, and the underlying assertion of superiority, plays into the hands of conservative evangelicals who are fed up with colonialist attitudes, but also of people who argue that religion, its followers and leaders are backwards and irrelevant.
Thursday Morning Lambeth Press Briefing
Matt Kennedy at Stand Firm:
"This is not about revisiting Lambeth 1.10” Ian Douglas No, the conference organizers, and I believe Douglas was one of them, have made sure that 1.10 will not be a focal point for this conference. ed.
Thursday, July 31, 2008 • 5:58 am
The opening video features Bishop Tom Shaw telling the camera, “I am really quite conservative” flanked by an African bishop who is also “conservative” but simply has a “different viewpoint.” Fortunately for the Communion, the nice African bishop tells us, Bishop Shaw and he “are brothers despite our disagreements”
The assorted press snickered.
Canon Paul:
The theme for the day is: Listening to God and to each other: The Bishops and Human Sexuality
The spouses are working on the theme: caring for God’s people.
It is a standard pattern in terms of the way the day is operating. There is another Reflection hearing from 2:00pm to 3:30pm. We will give you copies of the third draft Reflection document at the end of the 1:30pm Press Conference in the afternoon.
There has been one new self-select group created. It is intended to focus on “hearing initiatives” based on ++RW’s challenge to listen to one another in his Presidential Address, chaired by ++Clive Hanford
The press conference this afternoon will include
1. ++Ian Ernest
2. +Colin Johnson
The closing service, we are following the rules of the cathedral. If you want to go please email him and let him know.
That is it for normal announcements.
We have Ian Douglas+ with us this morning. He will share the o of what the bishops are doing this morning
ID: A few notes about the Indabas as they are planned for today so you know the shape of the conversations as they have been recommended, remembering that each indaba has its own life and often they do not follow the recommendations we give them and that is a natural process. One group as already begun to talk about human sexuality, they took it up yesterday, a day before our recommendations.
Basically the indaba groups, for those who do not know, are made up of 40 bishops, 5 groups of eight. Sometimes they separate into 8 person bible study groups and then come together again. The aim is to enable listening and understanding in relationship to the impact that the Anglican Communion’s engagement with same sex issues has had on our participation in God’s mission.
It is important in stressing that aim; that it is not designed to be a conversation revisiting Lambeth 1.10. It is not a conversation about anthropology or moral and ethical understandings of same sex sexuality, the focus is on how has the way the Anglican Communion has engaged in these conversations been consistent with participation in God’s mission.
Basically the indaba groups, for those who do not know, are made up of 40 bishops, 5 groups of eight. Sometimes they separate into 8 person bible study groups and then come together again. The aim is to enable listening and understanding in relationship to the impact that the Anglican Communion’s engagement with same sex issues has had on our participation in God’s mission.
It is important in stressing that aim; that it is not designed to be a conversation revisiting .Lambeth 1.10. It is not a conversation about anthropology or moral and ethical understandings of same sex sexuality, the focus is on how has the way the Anglican Communion has engaged in these conversations been consistent with participation in God’s mission.
The specific question given to the bishops in indaba group is: How have the same-sex initiates impacted my diocese’ part in God’s mission?
The indaba will see a short 10 minute video of faces of people around the communion speaking to that question. The point is that it is good for the bishops to be together but let’s not forget the wider body of Christ and how these conversations effect their lives in the Church
The bishops it is then suggested will move to the bible study groups where they can begin to answer this question for themselves…this is what this initiative has meant in my diocese
There will be an extension at the end of the indaba session where the bishops will be asked to consider: 1. what do I need from my fellow bishops to enable me to be true to my role in God’s mission. And what am I prepared to offer to help them?
That is the question to be dealt with in the 8 person bibles studies and then we come back to the plenary of 40 and share what has been learned. That is the day.
At the conclusion the 8 page report on the listening process will be available.
We have the video here. The people who are in the video, we have assured then that this it is a private video so we’ve kept their names secret and we will only play the sound…we’ll let you hear a two minute setting, just the audio respecting their participation
Audio playing:
Woman’s voice: homosexuality would seem like abnormality because in Genesis 1 we are told that God made them male and female
Man’s voice: as a traditionalist I believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman who are joined together for life
Man’s African voice: this fight over homosexuality does not effect the parish at the grass roots and it is a diversion. We need to do more in terms of reaching out to people who want to come back to the Christian faith instead of fighting
Woman with African voice: it is difficult because these people are also human, we recognize that but some would say to them that their behavior is wrong.
Woman (American voice). I am not gay but I attend a church that welcomes gay people and I believe the marginalized are to be accepted
Woman (Irish voice): as soon as a story comes out about this crisis it effects us in parishes because it is about our reputation and the way we are percieved
Man (English): one of the concerns that have arisen from what the ABC was saying is not the fact that VGR was ordained but that TEC was not willing to take the time to discuss whether he could. The decision came about through democracy rather than theology
We will play it all for you at the end.
Note:I was in the back and it was very difficult to hear the questions:
Q: Rowan Williams says that is he not the one directing this conference…who are the decision makers who decide what will be released and what will not? Williams disclaims any knowledge, you are not the decision makers, who is?
A: Maybe you are caught up in the indaba process…the design group does meet with the ABC every day. There are two staff meeings including the ACO, the staff of Lambeth palace, the design group, and security.
Sugden: You outline the questions that the indaba groups may discuss today. At the beginning we were told hat the indaba groups were going to try to get to the root issues. These questions, however, seem to be implementation questions? Listening to the video we are wondering whether the discussion will include those who have through the gospel come to a different approach to unwanted same sex attraction? I have not heard a substantive address of the root issue
ID: Well, what is the root issue for you?
Sugden: You said the reason for indaba was to get to the root. How does the gospel engage with same sex attraction? I do not see that engaged here’
ID: I would respond that with 650 bishops meeting in so many venues, to speak as to whether they speak to the root issue is beyond my control. In the indaba yesterday, it sounded like root questions were addressed. The issues that are addressed are really the ultimate purview of each indaba. We cannot control this process.
Rosenthal: the book published before the conference on the Anglican Communion and homosexuality deals with those issues Chris, and I am sure that you’ve seen it.
Q: With regard to today’s process: to what extent are people aware of their actions on the mission of their church and the effect of their actions on the LGBT people? For example if a mom decides to stop going to church because of the churches attitudes toward LGBT people, what is the effect on the child?
A: The invitation is for the bishops to bring those sorts of stories forward and I think they will do that.
Q: You said the conference is not revisiting 1:10, is that because that stands as the mind of the communion?
ID: I think you have to take the ABC’s word on that, that is as authoritative voice we have on that.
Q: will there be any discussion of the impact the embrace of homosexual behavior has on the evangelization of the pan-arabic world?
A: With bishops in the indaba groups, that is the burden, to share that side of the story. That is a root or key to this process
….missed this next question
A: my hope is that the bishops speak openly and honestly with each other and to see if they can come to some sort of harmony. I do not think this will be resolved, but I pray that there will be a deep and impassioned sharing of vision within the context of human sexuality.
I believe this process is an exercise of communion and it is something that in the AC, instead of becoming isolated, we are given the opportunity to speak across the divide, we can see if there is not a common place that we are being drawn toward.
Q: you said these questions were set in the context of the bible studies but if we cannot even agree on how to study the bibles how can that help?
A: each indaba has 5 bible studies. The recommendation is that to begin to engage these questions that the bible studies be used as the context to address them.
Q Could you clarify the added self-select session? What is the mission of this new session?
A: Following the ABC’s second presidential address and building on the movement of the Spirit at the conference, there have been different groups where bishops have been saying what would it look like if we tried “this” or “that”. The addition of the self-select session which will be chaired by ++Hanford is to allow bishops to speak among themselves in keeping with the ABC’s speech
end
"This is not about revisiting Lambeth 1.10” Ian Douglas No, the conference organizers, and I believe Douglas was one of them, have made sure that 1.10 will not be a focal point for this conference. ed.
Thursday, July 31, 2008 • 5:58 am
The opening video features Bishop Tom Shaw telling the camera, “I am really quite conservative” flanked by an African bishop who is also “conservative” but simply has a “different viewpoint.” Fortunately for the Communion, the nice African bishop tells us, Bishop Shaw and he “are brothers despite our disagreements”
The assorted press snickered.
Canon Paul:
The theme for the day is: Listening to God and to each other: The Bishops and Human Sexuality
The spouses are working on the theme: caring for God’s people.
It is a standard pattern in terms of the way the day is operating. There is another Reflection hearing from 2:00pm to 3:30pm. We will give you copies of the third draft Reflection document at the end of the 1:30pm Press Conference in the afternoon.
There has been one new self-select group created. It is intended to focus on “hearing initiatives” based on ++RW’s challenge to listen to one another in his Presidential Address, chaired by ++Clive Hanford
The press conference this afternoon will include
1. ++Ian Ernest
2. +Colin Johnson
The closing service, we are following the rules of the cathedral. If you want to go please email him and let him know.
That is it for normal announcements.
We have Ian Douglas+ with us this morning. He will share the o of what the bishops are doing this morning
ID: A few notes about the Indabas as they are planned for today so you know the shape of the conversations as they have been recommended, remembering that each indaba has its own life and often they do not follow the recommendations we give them and that is a natural process. One group as already begun to talk about human sexuality, they took it up yesterday, a day before our recommendations.
Basically the indaba groups, for those who do not know, are made up of 40 bishops, 5 groups of eight. Sometimes they separate into 8 person bible study groups and then come together again. The aim is to enable listening and understanding in relationship to the impact that the Anglican Communion’s engagement with same sex issues has had on our participation in God’s mission.
It is important in stressing that aim; that it is not designed to be a conversation revisiting Lambeth 1.10. It is not a conversation about anthropology or moral and ethical understandings of same sex sexuality, the focus is on how has the way the Anglican Communion has engaged in these conversations been consistent with participation in God’s mission.
Basically the indaba groups, for those who do not know, are made up of 40 bishops, 5 groups of eight. Sometimes they separate into 8 person bible study groups and then come together again. The aim is to enable listening and understanding in relationship to the impact that the Anglican Communion’s engagement with same sex issues has had on our participation in God’s mission.
It is important in stressing that aim; that it is not designed to be a conversation revisiting .Lambeth 1.10. It is not a conversation about anthropology or moral and ethical understandings of same sex sexuality, the focus is on how has the way the Anglican Communion has engaged in these conversations been consistent with participation in God’s mission.
The specific question given to the bishops in indaba group is: How have the same-sex initiates impacted my diocese’ part in God’s mission?
The indaba will see a short 10 minute video of faces of people around the communion speaking to that question. The point is that it is good for the bishops to be together but let’s not forget the wider body of Christ and how these conversations effect their lives in the Church
The bishops it is then suggested will move to the bible study groups where they can begin to answer this question for themselves…this is what this initiative has meant in my diocese
There will be an extension at the end of the indaba session where the bishops will be asked to consider: 1. what do I need from my fellow bishops to enable me to be true to my role in God’s mission. And what am I prepared to offer to help them?
That is the question to be dealt with in the 8 person bibles studies and then we come back to the plenary of 40 and share what has been learned. That is the day.
At the conclusion the 8 page report on the listening process will be available.
We have the video here. The people who are in the video, we have assured then that this it is a private video so we’ve kept their names secret and we will only play the sound…we’ll let you hear a two minute setting, just the audio respecting their participation
Audio playing:
Woman’s voice: homosexuality would seem like abnormality because in Genesis 1 we are told that God made them male and female
Man’s voice: as a traditionalist I believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman who are joined together for life
Man’s African voice: this fight over homosexuality does not effect the parish at the grass roots and it is a diversion. We need to do more in terms of reaching out to people who want to come back to the Christian faith instead of fighting
Woman with African voice: it is difficult because these people are also human, we recognize that but some would say to them that their behavior is wrong.
Woman (American voice). I am not gay but I attend a church that welcomes gay people and I believe the marginalized are to be accepted
Woman (Irish voice): as soon as a story comes out about this crisis it effects us in parishes because it is about our reputation and the way we are percieved
Man (English): one of the concerns that have arisen from what the ABC was saying is not the fact that VGR was ordained but that TEC was not willing to take the time to discuss whether he could. The decision came about through democracy rather than theology
We will play it all for you at the end.
Note:I was in the back and it was very difficult to hear the questions:
Q: Rowan Williams says that is he not the one directing this conference…who are the decision makers who decide what will be released and what will not? Williams disclaims any knowledge, you are not the decision makers, who is?
A: Maybe you are caught up in the indaba process…the design group does meet with the ABC every day. There are two staff meeings including the ACO, the staff of Lambeth palace, the design group, and security.
Sugden: You outline the questions that the indaba groups may discuss today. At the beginning we were told hat the indaba groups were going to try to get to the root issues. These questions, however, seem to be implementation questions? Listening to the video we are wondering whether the discussion will include those who have through the gospel come to a different approach to unwanted same sex attraction? I have not heard a substantive address of the root issue
ID: Well, what is the root issue for you?
Sugden: You said the reason for indaba was to get to the root. How does the gospel engage with same sex attraction? I do not see that engaged here’
ID: I would respond that with 650 bishops meeting in so many venues, to speak as to whether they speak to the root issue is beyond my control. In the indaba yesterday, it sounded like root questions were addressed. The issues that are addressed are really the ultimate purview of each indaba. We cannot control this process.
Rosenthal: the book published before the conference on the Anglican Communion and homosexuality deals with those issues Chris, and I am sure that you’ve seen it.
Q: With regard to today’s process: to what extent are people aware of their actions on the mission of their church and the effect of their actions on the LGBT people? For example if a mom decides to stop going to church because of the churches attitudes toward LGBT people, what is the effect on the child?
A: The invitation is for the bishops to bring those sorts of stories forward and I think they will do that.
Q: You said the conference is not revisiting 1:10, is that because that stands as the mind of the communion?
ID: I think you have to take the ABC’s word on that, that is as authoritative voice we have on that.
Q: will there be any discussion of the impact the embrace of homosexual behavior has on the evangelization of the pan-arabic world?
A: With bishops in the indaba groups, that is the burden, to share that side of the story. That is a root or key to this process
….missed this next question
A: my hope is that the bishops speak openly and honestly with each other and to see if they can come to some sort of harmony. I do not think this will be resolved, but I pray that there will be a deep and impassioned sharing of vision within the context of human sexuality.
I believe this process is an exercise of communion and it is something that in the AC, instead of becoming isolated, we are given the opportunity to speak across the divide, we can see if there is not a common place that we are being drawn toward.
Q: you said these questions were set in the context of the bible studies but if we cannot even agree on how to study the bibles how can that help?
A: each indaba has 5 bible studies. The recommendation is that to begin to engage these questions that the bible studies be used as the context to address them.
Q Could you clarify the added self-select session? What is the mission of this new session?
A: Following the ABC’s second presidential address and building on the movement of the Spirit at the conference, there have been different groups where bishops have been saying what would it look like if we tried “this” or “that”. The addition of the self-select session which will be chaired by ++Hanford is to allow bishops to speak among themselves in keeping with the ABC’s speech
end
Thursday Afternoon Lambeth Press Conference
Matt Kennedy at Stand Firm:
Thursday, July 31, 2008 • 8:12 am
Participants:
Archbishop Ian Ernest (chairman of CAPA)
Bishop Colin Johnson of Toronto
The Rev. Jackie Crey from the spouses conference
++Aspinall: I want to make an observation about my own indaba. We have not suddenly reached a consensus but there is significant difference between 1998 and 2008 and that has to do with the kind of engagement we’re having. Ten years ago people were distressed at some of the reactions to some of what was said. There were occasions when bishops booed and hissed.
2008 has been dramatically different. The same degree of differing opinions was evident in the views held, but in my indaba group bishops who were on opposite ends of the spectrum and thanked each other for helping one another to understand their contexts. That is a significant step forward.
++Ian Ernest: We have been given a process by the Archbishop that enables us each to have a voice. At the opening session I did my speaking in French, and invited all the bishops to be a part to the process that the ABC has been inviting us to participate in. I have to say that we have been able to form friendships from each end of the spectrum and to do it. It is has been challenging and exciting. We have been able to express our views openly and honestly and listen carefully and attentively to bishops in other contexts. I remember having spoken passionately about my convictions and then another bishop stood up and told about his convictions passionately and then we held hands and said that we have to take this journey together
The conversation cannot stop. It must continue
But we have also widened the scope of debate. We are talking about polygamy and sexual abuse and promiscuity, the whole scope of human sexuality has to be integrated. We must be able to act in generosity toward one another. I remember that in my own indaba group a bishop was rejected in his group 10 years ago but today we are able to live with one another and to shed tears together knowing that we have different ways and different understandings, but the AC allows us to take out from under the table an issue and engage in it. Even with my own African colleagues we are listening to each other. I hope this Lambeth Conference will give us opportunities for being a group together and loving one another for the love of God given on the cross.
+Colin: We have had the opportunity to discuss these issues for 2 days because we, having ownership, changed some things. A number of images I want to give you.
indaba is about conversation. To have a conversation means turning toward one another. It is related to the word conversion, but you can only have conversation when you face one another. It is not about converting one person to another’s views, but we have been changed and changed one another a lot the process. The third party in the conversation is the Holy Spirit, and in listening to one another and the Holy Spirit we can have an encounter and be transformed. No one encounters the living God without being transformed
We spoke in small groups and in the whole group. The conversation was characterized by respect, generosity and trust. We felt in my indaba conversations so far that we were engaged in common mission despite our differences.
The common mission is more important than what separates us. The common mission is the MDG’s.
Two examples: The first one is from the aboriginal context, where the aborigines stir up the dust with sticks and then go into the house together: that characterizes our indaba group
The second image is the household. The image that was presented was that the household is more than just the bedroom. And outside the house you have land that is flooded or land that is not producing. Our vision must be broader we must ask how do we live faithful lives together.
We were asked to consider the question: What do I need as a bishop from you, my fellow bishops. We spoke very personally about that and the conversation will continue because we have four more indabas and we are all coming to each.
Questions:
Q: Have any bishops changed their minds as a result of the discussion?
++Aspinal: I am not aware of bishops who have changed they’re minds, I am aware of bishops who have been thankful for the experience.
+Colin: I think probably some have nuanced their positions but we did not take about anyone changing their views.
++Ernest: I do not think anyone has changed their minds. But we will be a bridge between those who are not here and this conference.
+Colin: The conservative voice is not absent here. There are conservative voices and liberal voices and moderate voices. The full spectrum is recognized
Q: There are criticism that that you are sidestepping the issue?
++Aspinall: The ABC has made his position clear that he did not believe any useful purpose would be served by revisiting Lambeth 1.10 but the process that was used last time did not help the church move forward so a different process is used to day. The process outcome so far this morning is illustrative of how this is working. From where I sit there disagreements to be seen but there are good signs at this state that we are going to work through this process and come out with a good result.
++Ernest: We are using this process so that we can express ourselves to one another and build our relationships.
+Colin: The conversation continues. We are continuing to engage indaba. When the people who came with anxiety about indaba are now saying we are “into indaba” it means the process is working.
Q: ++Ernest you said you engaged with your African colleagues and brothers and are a bridge for their concerns. Are you speaking to them as you are here?
++Ernest: I have not engaged myself with them yet while here. For the time being I am in conversation here/
Q: Both of you sound hopeful about this process, what words of hope do you have for LGBT Anglicans who are watching this conference? It looks like their lives are being used as bargaining chips?
+Colin: I would not say that. In the initial conversions we were talking about how all the bishops contexts were impacted by this issue and people were speaking out of their own experience and clearly people are in communities where there is great openness about these issues, and they are bringing that into he conversation.
Ernest: and we also take into consideration what Lambeth 1.10 tells us about listening to those who are lesbian and gay.
Q: Is there an expectation that the word of the bishop will influence the Windsor process and whether that will make an impact on the Covenant?
A: Some of that ground has been chewed over and there is a self select session, a special one, planned for this afternoon, to get these ideas on the table so they can make into the Reflection.
Q: The process sees well designed to include all the voices here. When will the LGBT voice be heard?
++Ernest: we are representatives of our provinces and dioceses so we speak for our people.
+Colin: I come from a diverse diocese and I have many LGBT people in my context. So I am not speaking only for myself or one bodyu but for a range of people in my own diocese. We have a large LGBT population and so I am speaking that experience into the sessions and I am also representing other voices. We have a large very conservative group in my diocese as well. I am trying to hold paradoxes in tension.
Q: If at a meeting you do not have present someone who speaks for the conservative camp, does that represent in some way how little progress has been made here?
+Aspinall: I reject your premise. Archbishop Ernest is clearly in the conservative camp
Q: ++Ernest: what has the GAFCON movement done to the unity of CAPA?
A: I have invited my brother primates to attend an meeting of CAPA in September. Both GAFCON and Lambeth are on the agenda.
Q: After the ABC’s address, many felt as though a diminution of the place of TEC might be a result, but now that it seems as though relationships have been formed and the indaba process is working, is this possibly avoidable?
A: +Colin: within our indaba group we have not reached consensus there are voices who would favor that and others who would oppose it. Both were expressed forcefully
Ruth: +Ernest: AB Orombi has written a piece that will appear in the Times tomorrow accusing the ABC of betraying the communion and speaking of colonialism. In light of these comments could you explain more about this bridge you discussed earlier?
A; as you know some of my brothers are not here but we are the bridge to bring their voices here. We have attended at the invitation of the ABC to engage ourselves with the covenant process. I am someone whose life is based on the bible and biblical principles and I will defend them with love and respect.
Andrew Carey: we are hearing a lot about process. It is all very nice hearing about how you are getting along but it looks like navel gazing from the outside.
++Aspinall It does not feel like navel gazing from the inside. There is a lot of growing together going on. Bishops are moving closer. We may not have reached one mind or consensus but growth is coming and that is significant.
+Colin: consensus has gathered around the environment, MDG’s, womens issues and many of the bishops think that the media attention around sexuality has disallowed the kind of conversation that should go on around these more important issues.
end
Thursday, July 31, 2008 • 8:12 am
Participants:
Archbishop Ian Ernest (chairman of CAPA)
Bishop Colin Johnson of Toronto
The Rev. Jackie Crey from the spouses conference
++Aspinall: I want to make an observation about my own indaba. We have not suddenly reached a consensus but there is significant difference between 1998 and 2008 and that has to do with the kind of engagement we’re having. Ten years ago people were distressed at some of the reactions to some of what was said. There were occasions when bishops booed and hissed.
2008 has been dramatically different. The same degree of differing opinions was evident in the views held, but in my indaba group bishops who were on opposite ends of the spectrum and thanked each other for helping one another to understand their contexts. That is a significant step forward.
++Ian Ernest: We have been given a process by the Archbishop that enables us each to have a voice. At the opening session I did my speaking in French, and invited all the bishops to be a part to the process that the ABC has been inviting us to participate in. I have to say that we have been able to form friendships from each end of the spectrum and to do it. It is has been challenging and exciting. We have been able to express our views openly and honestly and listen carefully and attentively to bishops in other contexts. I remember having spoken passionately about my convictions and then another bishop stood up and told about his convictions passionately and then we held hands and said that we have to take this journey together
The conversation cannot stop. It must continue
But we have also widened the scope of debate. We are talking about polygamy and sexual abuse and promiscuity, the whole scope of human sexuality has to be integrated. We must be able to act in generosity toward one another. I remember that in my own indaba group a bishop was rejected in his group 10 years ago but today we are able to live with one another and to shed tears together knowing that we have different ways and different understandings, but the AC allows us to take out from under the table an issue and engage in it. Even with my own African colleagues we are listening to each other. I hope this Lambeth Conference will give us opportunities for being a group together and loving one another for the love of God given on the cross.
+Colin: We have had the opportunity to discuss these issues for 2 days because we, having ownership, changed some things. A number of images I want to give you.
indaba is about conversation. To have a conversation means turning toward one another. It is related to the word conversion, but you can only have conversation when you face one another. It is not about converting one person to another’s views, but we have been changed and changed one another a lot the process. The third party in the conversation is the Holy Spirit, and in listening to one another and the Holy Spirit we can have an encounter and be transformed. No one encounters the living God without being transformed
We spoke in small groups and in the whole group. The conversation was characterized by respect, generosity and trust. We felt in my indaba conversations so far that we were engaged in common mission despite our differences.
The common mission is more important than what separates us. The common mission is the MDG’s.
Two examples: The first one is from the aboriginal context, where the aborigines stir up the dust with sticks and then go into the house together: that characterizes our indaba group
The second image is the household. The image that was presented was that the household is more than just the bedroom. And outside the house you have land that is flooded or land that is not producing. Our vision must be broader we must ask how do we live faithful lives together.
We were asked to consider the question: What do I need as a bishop from you, my fellow bishops. We spoke very personally about that and the conversation will continue because we have four more indabas and we are all coming to each.
Questions:
Q: Have any bishops changed their minds as a result of the discussion?
++Aspinal: I am not aware of bishops who have changed they’re minds, I am aware of bishops who have been thankful for the experience.
+Colin: I think probably some have nuanced their positions but we did not take about anyone changing their views.
++Ernest: I do not think anyone has changed their minds. But we will be a bridge between those who are not here and this conference.
+Colin: The conservative voice is not absent here. There are conservative voices and liberal voices and moderate voices. The full spectrum is recognized
Q: There are criticism that that you are sidestepping the issue?
++Aspinall: The ABC has made his position clear that he did not believe any useful purpose would be served by revisiting Lambeth 1.10 but the process that was used last time did not help the church move forward so a different process is used to day. The process outcome so far this morning is illustrative of how this is working. From where I sit there disagreements to be seen but there are good signs at this state that we are going to work through this process and come out with a good result.
++Ernest: We are using this process so that we can express ourselves to one another and build our relationships.
+Colin: The conversation continues. We are continuing to engage indaba. When the people who came with anxiety about indaba are now saying we are “into indaba” it means the process is working.
Q: ++Ernest you said you engaged with your African colleagues and brothers and are a bridge for their concerns. Are you speaking to them as you are here?
++Ernest: I have not engaged myself with them yet while here. For the time being I am in conversation here/
Q: Both of you sound hopeful about this process, what words of hope do you have for LGBT Anglicans who are watching this conference? It looks like their lives are being used as bargaining chips?
+Colin: I would not say that. In the initial conversions we were talking about how all the bishops contexts were impacted by this issue and people were speaking out of their own experience and clearly people are in communities where there is great openness about these issues, and they are bringing that into he conversation.
Ernest: and we also take into consideration what Lambeth 1.10 tells us about listening to those who are lesbian and gay.
Q: Is there an expectation that the word of the bishop will influence the Windsor process and whether that will make an impact on the Covenant?
A: Some of that ground has been chewed over and there is a self select session, a special one, planned for this afternoon, to get these ideas on the table so they can make into the Reflection.
Q: The process sees well designed to include all the voices here. When will the LGBT voice be heard?
++Ernest: we are representatives of our provinces and dioceses so we speak for our people.
+Colin: I come from a diverse diocese and I have many LGBT people in my context. So I am not speaking only for myself or one bodyu but for a range of people in my own diocese. We have a large LGBT population and so I am speaking that experience into the sessions and I am also representing other voices. We have a large very conservative group in my diocese as well. I am trying to hold paradoxes in tension.
Q: If at a meeting you do not have present someone who speaks for the conservative camp, does that represent in some way how little progress has been made here?
+Aspinall: I reject your premise. Archbishop Ernest is clearly in the conservative camp
Q: ++Ernest: what has the GAFCON movement done to the unity of CAPA?
A: I have invited my brother primates to attend an meeting of CAPA in September. Both GAFCON and Lambeth are on the agenda.
Q: After the ABC’s address, many felt as though a diminution of the place of TEC might be a result, but now that it seems as though relationships have been formed and the indaba process is working, is this possibly avoidable?
A: +Colin: within our indaba group we have not reached consensus there are voices who would favor that and others who would oppose it. Both were expressed forcefully
Ruth: +Ernest: AB Orombi has written a piece that will appear in the Times tomorrow accusing the ABC of betraying the communion and speaking of colonialism. In light of these comments could you explain more about this bridge you discussed earlier?
A; as you know some of my brothers are not here but we are the bridge to bring their voices here. We have attended at the invitation of the ABC to engage ourselves with the covenant process. I am someone whose life is based on the bible and biblical principles and I will defend them with love and respect.
Andrew Carey: we are hearing a lot about process. It is all very nice hearing about how you are getting along but it looks like navel gazing from the outside.
++Aspinall It does not feel like navel gazing from the inside. There is a lot of growing together going on. Bishops are moving closer. We may not have reached one mind or consensus but growth is coming and that is significant.
+Colin: consensus has gathered around the environment, MDG’s, womens issues and many of the bishops think that the media attention around sexuality has disallowed the kind of conversation that should go on around these more important issues.
end
LAMBETH: Bishops Have Indaba on Sex
By Hans Zeiger in Canterbury
www.virtueonline.org
July 31, 2008
CANTERBURY-Today's theme at the decennial Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion is "Listening to God and Each Other: The Bishop and human sexuality." In a morning press briefing, Prof. Ian Douglas of Episcopal Divinity School and a member of the Lambeth Design Team explained that the aim of the discussions in the morning "Indaba" groups is "to enable listening and understanding in relation to the effect same-sex issues have had on our mission."
Indaba gatherings consist of forty bishops broken into five subgroups. Douglas said that the focus questions in the Indaba groups are "How has the Communion's engagement with same-sex issues impacted my diocese's engagement with the church's mission?" "What do I need from my fellow bishops?" "What can I offer to my fellow bishops?"
The resulting discussion, said Douglas, will be "an exercise in communion."
The Rt. Rev. Larry Robertson, Suffragan Bishop of the Arctic, stopped on the sidewalk for a brief interview with VirtueOnline prior to his Indaba group discussion, which he said "should be interesting. It has been interesting right from the beginning. There's enough mixture of different opinions given. People are very sincere."
A self-described conservative bishop in the Anglican Church of Canada, Robertson said that human sexuality is "a gift of God, but a gift to be used according to Scripture."
Asked what he hopes to add to the Indaba discussion, Robertson replied, "I think we have been listening. I'm not sure we have moved anyone. I'm not sure what the outcome will be, but we give it our best."
The Most Rev. James Ayong, Archbishop of Papua New Guinea, said that "from a morality point of view," he cannot agree with homosexual ordination. But he does not expect that any solution will be forthcoming from Lambeth. "I don't think that there is the answer at this Lambeth, but it is a long process," he said.
Ayong suggested that decisions about Bishop Robinson and homosexual ordination rest with The Episcopal Church. "We take provinces to be autonomous. We respect the decisions of other provinces as well."
Asked whether Bishop Robinson's resignation would help the church to heal its divisions, Ayong replied, "I would have thought so. It's a problem within his own community, but as a whole church, it's an issue."
Of course, many bishops at Lambeth are pushing for the full inclusion of gays and lesbians in the Anglican Communion. The Rt. Rev. Ebeneezer Ntali, Bishop-elect of Grahamstown in South Africa, told VirtueOnline "The church of God is for everybody. I cannot stand at the door and say you belong to such and such sex, or such and such sexuality, you don't belong here."
He added, "There are certain resolutions which are not approving people of this nature. But sometimes things must not be done by yes and no. When the resolution says no and you go beyond it, I will not force [the resolution]."
Bishop-elect Ntali said it is his prayer "that we understand the processes and what went wrong. We will respect the decision of this conference."
END
www.virtueonline.org
July 31, 2008
CANTERBURY-Today's theme at the decennial Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion is "Listening to God and Each Other: The Bishop and human sexuality." In a morning press briefing, Prof. Ian Douglas of Episcopal Divinity School and a member of the Lambeth Design Team explained that the aim of the discussions in the morning "Indaba" groups is "to enable listening and understanding in relation to the effect same-sex issues have had on our mission."
Indaba gatherings consist of forty bishops broken into five subgroups. Douglas said that the focus questions in the Indaba groups are "How has the Communion's engagement with same-sex issues impacted my diocese's engagement with the church's mission?" "What do I need from my fellow bishops?" "What can I offer to my fellow bishops?"
The resulting discussion, said Douglas, will be "an exercise in communion."
The Rt. Rev. Larry Robertson, Suffragan Bishop of the Arctic, stopped on the sidewalk for a brief interview with VirtueOnline prior to his Indaba group discussion, which he said "should be interesting. It has been interesting right from the beginning. There's enough mixture of different opinions given. People are very sincere."
A self-described conservative bishop in the Anglican Church of Canada, Robertson said that human sexuality is "a gift of God, but a gift to be used according to Scripture."
Asked what he hopes to add to the Indaba discussion, Robertson replied, "I think we have been listening. I'm not sure we have moved anyone. I'm not sure what the outcome will be, but we give it our best."
The Most Rev. James Ayong, Archbishop of Papua New Guinea, said that "from a morality point of view," he cannot agree with homosexual ordination. But he does not expect that any solution will be forthcoming from Lambeth. "I don't think that there is the answer at this Lambeth, but it is a long process," he said.
Ayong suggested that decisions about Bishop Robinson and homosexual ordination rest with The Episcopal Church. "We take provinces to be autonomous. We respect the decisions of other provinces as well."
Asked whether Bishop Robinson's resignation would help the church to heal its divisions, Ayong replied, "I would have thought so. It's a problem within his own community, but as a whole church, it's an issue."
Of course, many bishops at Lambeth are pushing for the full inclusion of gays and lesbians in the Anglican Communion. The Rt. Rev. Ebeneezer Ntali, Bishop-elect of Grahamstown in South Africa, told VirtueOnline "The church of God is for everybody. I cannot stand at the door and say you belong to such and such sex, or such and such sexuality, you don't belong here."
He added, "There are certain resolutions which are not approving people of this nature. But sometimes things must not be done by yes and no. When the resolution says no and you go beyond it, I will not force [the resolution]."
Bishop-elect Ntali said it is his prayer "that we understand the processes and what went wrong. We will respect the decision of this conference."
END
LAMBETH: David's Diary - From My Ear to Yours (3)
By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
7/30/2008
We are close to the end. Everyone is getting a bit squirrelly and tired. News writing has been constant and relentless. Despite the inaccessibility of bishops, we can buttonhole them as they walk to various events. But once they pass through the wired off fences and into their Indaba groups and plenary sessions, it is hands off. One of the few exceptions has been Archbishop Deng who stormed into the Press/Media room and spoke openly about homosexuality as a communion breaking issue.
A second occasion occurred today when orthodox Episcopal Bishop Peter Beckwith (Springfield) gave an impromptu press conference in front of Darwin House telling us what it is like being a token orthodox bishop in the TEC's HOB and to answer questions about is going on inside. His story can be viewed at VOL's website. http://tinyurl.com/6eyzjw
*****
The whole gay and lesbian presence here is overwhelming and relentless. When you go into the Marketplace, the first booth to hit you as you go through the front door is "Lesbian and Gay Christian and Our Friends". (Who set that up?) Cheery young people dressed in yellow tee shirts hand out literature to all and sundry. From there the push is on. In all, there are five sodomite booths ranging from Integrity, Inclusive Church, Affirming Catholicism (pro gay), Changing Attitude to Sybils (a transgender presence). A Massachusetts priest who had a sex change operation (he now sports a beard) is eager to tell his story. And then there's the Rev. Dr. Christina Beardsley, now a woman who was a man, who functions as a hospital chaplain in the UK. Gay and lesbian literature is everywhere, but most of it seems unread. Last night there was an evening with somebody called Peterson Toscano who has written a play, "Doin' Time in the Homo No Mo Halfway House" in which he tells the story of how he survived the 'ex-gay' movement.
Speaking of ex-gay or post-gay, the Zacchaeus Fellowship is here bearing witness to the transforming power of Christ's love in our lives. "As men and women who have struggled with same-sex attractions, we seek to be a voice of hope to the church and to others who share these struggles. We encourage the Church to stand firm in proclaiming to everyone who experiences same-sex attractions that Christ offers them new life and hope." Not with this crowd. Inclusion means never having to repent or change your life.
Revulsion is everywhere. The Africans find all this public display of homosexual behavior repulsive and in-your-face. They are polite here, except for occasional eruptions in Indaba groups. When they go back to their countries, I have no doubt they will have second thoughts about what they saw and heard. Africans react slowly, but when they do, it will be final and possibly fatal to the long- term future of the Communion.
*****
The spin is endless. Consider the quote of the day from Catherine Roskam, Bishop Suffragan of New York printed in "The Lambeth Witness", a gay/lesbian daily publication put out here in Canterbury. "We have 700 men here. Do you think any of them beat their wives? Chances are they do. The most devout Christians beat their wives...many of our bishops come from places where it is culturally accepted to beat your wife. In that regard, it makes the conversation quite difficult." You can read Martin Beckford's excellent piece on Roskam's stupid, condescending, post- colonial attitude which episcopal bishops continually display while pretending to be inclusive. http://tinyurl.com/5suz36
Throw in the time worn polygamy argument, raised by the Bishop of Europe Pierre Whalon about African bishops, and you get the idea. The sub-text is always the same, how to broker in homosexuality and make it acceptable to the Anglican masses. Well, it won't fly. These liberal and revisionist bishops will say and do almost anything to justify homosexuality as good and right in the eyes of God. When desperation really sets in, the revisionists drag out the "chicken dinner" line from Lambeth 1998. You will recall that some conservative American bishops and priests were accused of providing chicken dinners in order to bribe them for their votes. This was a huge lie. The weekend in question, American bishops made off to France to wine and dine leaving the African bishops high and dry. Had American Evangelicals not fed them, they would have starved.
*****
Central Florida Bishop John W. Howe doesn't seem afraid to speak his mind. He noted on the Lambeth Walk, "If you have seen pictures of that event, you may have noticed an oddity: hanging on the twin pillars outside the entrance to the Palace were banners enunciating two of the three phrases from the day's text, Micah 6:8. One read "Do Justice," the other "Love Mercy." Missing altogether was third piece of the command: "Walk Humbly With Your God." Howe was clearly impressed with Gordon Brown the Prime Minister whom Howe said he could not recall hearing an elected official, serving in anywhere the capacity of a Prime Minister of England; speak so openly about his/her personal faith in Christ and its implications for service. "Today the "revolt" I have been predicting began to surface. It is a very mild one, indeed, but a growing frustration is being expressed in many of the "Indaba" groups about what one senior Bishop called the "jejune" conversations taking place, to the neglect of the truly deep concerns that most people want to talk about. It is also a concern about "process" - breaking into small groups to discuss every specific may provide for "every voice being heard," but the fact is, not every one wishes to speak to every specific issue."
*****
Then there was the typo faux pas in "The Guardian" newspaper which said that Gene Robinson, the ever popular Bishop of New Hampshire, observes that every trip to a British PUBIC house as an ode to the saying "two nations separated by a common language." Truth is clearly no stranger to typos. The writer was truer than anyone could have possibly thought or imagined.
*****
There was a TEC press conference with Bishops Henry Parsley and Deena Harrison who talked about how discussion on "abuse of power" went. Very little of note, except Harrison said, "The word of hope [for gays and lesbians] is that we are still committed to a community in which everyone can find a place."
And then there was a book in the exhibit hall with the title, "The Christian Handbook of Abuse, Addiction, and Difficult Behavior" with not a mention of The Episcopal Church as a dysfunctional, abusing family.
*****
Ft. Worth Bishop Jack Iker had some choice words to say about the 3rd Windsor Continuation Group Report. In an interview, he said that a number of TEC bishops who spoke at the hearing were quite distraught over the recommendations of the report. California Bishop Marc Andrus stood and said something like "I'm not going to lie to you; we have numerous same-sex blessings occurring in my diocese all the time, and have for years." Bishop Chane stood and commented that he had about 30 same-sex-partnered clergy in his diocese.
"While one can give both bishops points for honesty, they look less stellar when one considers their admissions (and much other evidence) alongside the pledge that TEC bishops made last September. Will Dr. Williams finally acknowledge that the word of TEC bishops cannot be trusted - even if the WCG recommendations were to go forward?" A friend wrote: "This is hardly the first evidence of lying on the part of TEC bishops to Rowan and to the Windsor people and to anyone else involved with potentially disciplining them. I wonder if Rowan will now have to acknowledge the obvious. TEC bishops lied. Katharine Jefferts Schori lied. They can't be trusted. I doubt he can muster the courage to do that. The reputation of Lambeth has sunk even lower, if that's possible."
*****
At the Inclusive Church event this afternoon, Davis Mac Ayalla addressed the media present, saying that recent publications by the conservative Anglican media are potentially harmful to gay and lesbian Africans. Really. He didn't share the lies he told in Nigeria, before he escaped to get asylum in the UK, about how he was allegedly assaulted by GAFCON (Nigerian) bishops. It was such a huge lie that Colin Coward, his sodomite Changing Attitude champion, had to finally back down and admit that it was not true. Does one think for a single moment that evangelical Nigerian bishops, who are busy evangelizing and bringing millions to Christ, are even remotely interested in Ayalla and what he does, where he lives and would send someone after him! He thinks too much of himself to think they are even remotely interested him. Ayalla has used his public pain and notoriety to get everything he wants, including asylum. You can read an alternative opinion on Ayalla here. http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8749
*****
A "conversation" session with Gene Robinson was by invitation only for Bishops and Spouses. my trusty sidekick Hans Zeiger, who is writing brilliantly here, was told. He tried to get into an open conversation meeting to hear Robinson. He was told "no." One wonders what the bishop is going to say that would possibly exclude the media. Is there something new about homoerotic behavior that we don't already know? The whine is endless.
*****
And then there's this choice morsel from "Guardian" writer Riazat Butt about Lambeth bishops looking for a pint. Gene Robinson, the bishop of New Hampshire, is not the only prelate sampling the delights of Kent's public houses. A source close to Lambeth - a cab driver who has been shuttling purple people around - informs the "Guardian" that delegates are keen to have a pint at The Bishops Finger, a historic 16th century public house in the heart of Canterbury, and to have their photo taken outside the watering hole. The Bishops Finger is where the Canterbury Ghost Tour ends and the final tale of the Black Cat of St Dunstans is told. It also used to be Canterbury's most popular gay pub. Another cab driver remembers the crazy antics from Lambeth 1998, when bishops enjoyed a hot and cold running buffet, normally held on the final weekend to celebrate the end of the conference. "There was lots of holy water," he says. Disaster struck when, during the festivities, there was an accident involving an archbishop, a barbecue skewer and an open-toed sandal. The cabbie, who is also a trained paramedic, was called to the Kent campus to administer first aid to the injured primate.
*****
Considering the theme "Equal in God's sight: when power is abused," a session, which was closed to the public, saw a dramatization by the Riding Lights Theatre Company of Jesus' attitude toward women, Dr. Jenny Plane Te Paa, principal of the College of St. John the Evangelist in Auckland, New Zealand, told a media briefing. The drama "saw people in tears," she said. The group then heard a dramatic reading of 2 Samuel 13:1-22, in which one of David's sons, Amnon, rapes his sister, Tamar. The passage "opened up major questions of how men behave, how women behave," said Te Paa. The audience was divided along gender lines and reorganized into small groups so both men and women could speak freely.
*****
No word on the abuse of power by Episcopal Church leaders towards the diminishing Anglo-Catholics in TEC and those evangelicals who cannot get DEPO and would like to leave TEC with the properties their parishioners built and paid for. Mrs. Jefferts Schori could write a whole book, along with her attorney David Booth Beers, on the abuse of power: Chapter 1: Diocese of Virginia; Chapter 2: Diocese of San Diego; Chapter 3: Diocese of Los Angeles; Chapter 4: Diocese of California; Chapter 5: Diocese of Nthn. California; Chapter 6: Diocese of San Joaquin; Chapter 7: Diocese of Pittsburgh; Chapter 8: How I Plan to Ruin Bishop Bob Duncan's life...permanently. Chapter 9: The thrill I Got Deposing Aging, Retired Bishops. To be continued.
*****
The Episcopal News Service is churning out the news in impressive quantities. Oddly enough, none of it is controversial. It's as though the whole controversy about homosexuality that is simmering just beneath the surface and which occasionally erupts in Indaba groups is not newsworthy!
*****
Rowan Williams spoke to the bishops at Lambeth yesterday and had this to say. "At the moment, we seem often to be threatening death to each other, not offering life. What some see as confused or reckless innovation in some provinces is felt as a body-blow to the integrity of mission and a matter of literal physical risk to Christians. The reaction to this is in turn felt as an annihilating judgement on a whole local church, undermining its legitimacy and pouring scorn on its witness. We need to speak life to each other; and that means change. I've made no secret of what I think that change should be - a Covenant that recognizes the need to grow towards each other (and also recognizes that not all may choose that way). I find it hard at present to see another way forward that would avoid further disintegration. But whatever your views on this, at least ask the question : 'Having heard the other person, the other group, as fully and fairly as I can, what generous initiative can I take to break through into a new and transformed relation of communion in Christ?'"
There are some problems with this "Covenant" talk statement. First of all, there will be no covenant that all will sign off on. Whatever is cooked up here will be so weak as to offend no one, in which case it isn't worth the paper it is printed on. As far as "growing towards each other" is concerned, it is a fiction in The Episcopal Church. The orthodox and revisionists are further apart than ever and at one another's throats. It is going to get a whole lot worse with more fleeing dioceses, more depositions and with millions of dollars more spent on lawsuits. "Generous initiative" is called who wins the lawsuit and who takes home the jackpot.
*****
Had drinks with the Communications Director for the Archbishop of York, John Sentamu. The Rev. Arun Arora came into the media office and asked to see me. He turned out to be a thoroughly agreeable, born again (he was a Baptist) Christian before he became an Anglican. Raised in a Sikh/Hindu household, he became a Christian at an early age. He later studied law and got drawn into the ministry in quite a remarkable way. He is married to a curate and sees his future doing inner-city ministry!
*****
Durham Bishop Tom Wright is backing himself into a corner. The open evangelical gave a Q & A to "Christian Today" and said this:
CT: Even some of the ecumenical partners here have admitted that if they were in the Archbishop of Canterbury's shoes, they also wouldn't know what to do. How do you deal with the polar opposites in the Communion?
TW: Well, there are some polar opposites, but there are also lots of people in the shades of grey in between who are genuinely trying to listen to each other and it is frustrating because we would have thought they could have been listening for the last five years but in some cases they just seem genuinely not to have been able to do that, and if this Lambeth Conference helps people who thought they were in these polar opposite camps to listen to each other and see there are ways forward...
There are no ways forward taking the two polar opposites with us, but it isn't a case of 'either you are all the way there' or 'you are all the way here'. Nor is it a soggy, fuzzy compromise in the middle. There are some definite things that have to be said and done and the Archbishop has said Windsor and the Covenant are the way to go and that's why he's invited us to Lambeth, to help him take that path.
If we follow that through, we will find a way of keeping the great majority of the Communion on board and raising a standard to say to those who don't want to go there, look, this is actually where the rest of us are, please can't you see your way to join us. We don't want to lose people. We are not in the business of getting a big stick or whatever. We are saying this is authentic Anglicanism and we do hope you will see that with us.
The only problem with this scenario is that we already have a de facto split with GAFCON speaking for 75% of the Anglican Communion! (40 out of 55 million) If this Lambeth (Network) Conference fails to come up with anything substantive, then Wright will have mud all over his face and may be forced to either join GAFCON or the liberals...a humbling experience indeed.
*****
Walter Cardinal Kasper addressed the Lambeth Conference bishops today. VOL was favored with a translation from the Italian by Andrea Galli of the National Catholic Daily in Italy. In the press room, he told me that Kasper was deeply concerned that dialogue between the Anglican Communion and the Roman Catholic Church was seriously compromised over women's ordination and homosexuality.
"The ordination of women to the episcopate blocks substantial and definite recognition of Anglican orders with the Catholic Church. We want to go on the dialogue in a theological way but this development of this situation changes directly our purpose. It changes the level of what we are aiming for. Our dialogue will be less definitive and the character of the dialogue will be changed. It won't be sustained by the dynamic that derives from the realistic possibility for the unity which Christ wants to ask from us."
About homosexuality, Kasper quoted the catechism from the Roman Catholic Church. "We are convinced of the fact that this teaching is founded in the Old and New Testament and the fidelity to Scripture and to Apostolic tradition is absolute." Kasper cited ARCIC documents called Life in Christ. "Homosexuality is a disordered behavior. The (homosexual) activity must be condemned;, the traditional approach to homosexuality is comprehensive. A clear declaration about this theme must come from the Anglican Communion. It would give us more possibilities to offer a common witness about human sexuality and marriage and to be a witness in this painful world in which we live."
*****
IN THEIR DREAMS. The Episcopal Church said they are going to bring out a joint memo with the Sudanese in an effort to find "reconciliation" on homosexuality. Not a chance. The Sudanese scotched the idea after their archbishop came out declaratively against the behavior. The Episcopal Church, looking for middle ground, will apparently find none.
END
www.virtueonline.org
7/30/2008
We are close to the end. Everyone is getting a bit squirrelly and tired. News writing has been constant and relentless. Despite the inaccessibility of bishops, we can buttonhole them as they walk to various events. But once they pass through the wired off fences and into their Indaba groups and plenary sessions, it is hands off. One of the few exceptions has been Archbishop Deng who stormed into the Press/Media room and spoke openly about homosexuality as a communion breaking issue.
A second occasion occurred today when orthodox Episcopal Bishop Peter Beckwith (Springfield) gave an impromptu press conference in front of Darwin House telling us what it is like being a token orthodox bishop in the TEC's HOB and to answer questions about is going on inside. His story can be viewed at VOL's website. http://tinyurl.com/6eyzjw
*****
The whole gay and lesbian presence here is overwhelming and relentless. When you go into the Marketplace, the first booth to hit you as you go through the front door is "Lesbian and Gay Christian and Our Friends". (Who set that up?) Cheery young people dressed in yellow tee shirts hand out literature to all and sundry. From there the push is on. In all, there are five sodomite booths ranging from Integrity, Inclusive Church, Affirming Catholicism (pro gay), Changing Attitude to Sybils (a transgender presence). A Massachusetts priest who had a sex change operation (he now sports a beard) is eager to tell his story. And then there's the Rev. Dr. Christina Beardsley, now a woman who was a man, who functions as a hospital chaplain in the UK. Gay and lesbian literature is everywhere, but most of it seems unread. Last night there was an evening with somebody called Peterson Toscano who has written a play, "Doin' Time in the Homo No Mo Halfway House" in which he tells the story of how he survived the 'ex-gay' movement.
Speaking of ex-gay or post-gay, the Zacchaeus Fellowship is here bearing witness to the transforming power of Christ's love in our lives. "As men and women who have struggled with same-sex attractions, we seek to be a voice of hope to the church and to others who share these struggles. We encourage the Church to stand firm in proclaiming to everyone who experiences same-sex attractions that Christ offers them new life and hope." Not with this crowd. Inclusion means never having to repent or change your life.
Revulsion is everywhere. The Africans find all this public display of homosexual behavior repulsive and in-your-face. They are polite here, except for occasional eruptions in Indaba groups. When they go back to their countries, I have no doubt they will have second thoughts about what they saw and heard. Africans react slowly, but when they do, it will be final and possibly fatal to the long- term future of the Communion.
*****
The spin is endless. Consider the quote of the day from Catherine Roskam, Bishop Suffragan of New York printed in "The Lambeth Witness", a gay/lesbian daily publication put out here in Canterbury. "We have 700 men here. Do you think any of them beat their wives? Chances are they do. The most devout Christians beat their wives...many of our bishops come from places where it is culturally accepted to beat your wife. In that regard, it makes the conversation quite difficult." You can read Martin Beckford's excellent piece on Roskam's stupid, condescending, post- colonial attitude which episcopal bishops continually display while pretending to be inclusive. http://tinyurl.com/5suz36
Throw in the time worn polygamy argument, raised by the Bishop of Europe Pierre Whalon about African bishops, and you get the idea. The sub-text is always the same, how to broker in homosexuality and make it acceptable to the Anglican masses. Well, it won't fly. These liberal and revisionist bishops will say and do almost anything to justify homosexuality as good and right in the eyes of God. When desperation really sets in, the revisionists drag out the "chicken dinner" line from Lambeth 1998. You will recall that some conservative American bishops and priests were accused of providing chicken dinners in order to bribe them for their votes. This was a huge lie. The weekend in question, American bishops made off to France to wine and dine leaving the African bishops high and dry. Had American Evangelicals not fed them, they would have starved.
*****
Central Florida Bishop John W. Howe doesn't seem afraid to speak his mind. He noted on the Lambeth Walk, "If you have seen pictures of that event, you may have noticed an oddity: hanging on the twin pillars outside the entrance to the Palace were banners enunciating two of the three phrases from the day's text, Micah 6:8. One read "Do Justice," the other "Love Mercy." Missing altogether was third piece of the command: "Walk Humbly With Your God." Howe was clearly impressed with Gordon Brown the Prime Minister whom Howe said he could not recall hearing an elected official, serving in anywhere the capacity of a Prime Minister of England; speak so openly about his/her personal faith in Christ and its implications for service. "Today the "revolt" I have been predicting began to surface. It is a very mild one, indeed, but a growing frustration is being expressed in many of the "Indaba" groups about what one senior Bishop called the "jejune" conversations taking place, to the neglect of the truly deep concerns that most people want to talk about. It is also a concern about "process" - breaking into small groups to discuss every specific may provide for "every voice being heard," but the fact is, not every one wishes to speak to every specific issue."
*****
Then there was the typo faux pas in "The Guardian" newspaper which said that Gene Robinson, the ever popular Bishop of New Hampshire, observes that every trip to a British PUBIC house as an ode to the saying "two nations separated by a common language." Truth is clearly no stranger to typos. The writer was truer than anyone could have possibly thought or imagined.
*****
There was a TEC press conference with Bishops Henry Parsley and Deena Harrison who talked about how discussion on "abuse of power" went. Very little of note, except Harrison said, "The word of hope [for gays and lesbians] is that we are still committed to a community in which everyone can find a place."
And then there was a book in the exhibit hall with the title, "The Christian Handbook of Abuse, Addiction, and Difficult Behavior" with not a mention of The Episcopal Church as a dysfunctional, abusing family.
*****
Ft. Worth Bishop Jack Iker had some choice words to say about the 3rd Windsor Continuation Group Report. In an interview, he said that a number of TEC bishops who spoke at the hearing were quite distraught over the recommendations of the report. California Bishop Marc Andrus stood and said something like "I'm not going to lie to you; we have numerous same-sex blessings occurring in my diocese all the time, and have for years." Bishop Chane stood and commented that he had about 30 same-sex-partnered clergy in his diocese.
"While one can give both bishops points for honesty, they look less stellar when one considers their admissions (and much other evidence) alongside the pledge that TEC bishops made last September. Will Dr. Williams finally acknowledge that the word of TEC bishops cannot be trusted - even if the WCG recommendations were to go forward?" A friend wrote: "This is hardly the first evidence of lying on the part of TEC bishops to Rowan and to the Windsor people and to anyone else involved with potentially disciplining them. I wonder if Rowan will now have to acknowledge the obvious. TEC bishops lied. Katharine Jefferts Schori lied. They can't be trusted. I doubt he can muster the courage to do that. The reputation of Lambeth has sunk even lower, if that's possible."
*****
At the Inclusive Church event this afternoon, Davis Mac Ayalla addressed the media present, saying that recent publications by the conservative Anglican media are potentially harmful to gay and lesbian Africans. Really. He didn't share the lies he told in Nigeria, before he escaped to get asylum in the UK, about how he was allegedly assaulted by GAFCON (Nigerian) bishops. It was such a huge lie that Colin Coward, his sodomite Changing Attitude champion, had to finally back down and admit that it was not true. Does one think for a single moment that evangelical Nigerian bishops, who are busy evangelizing and bringing millions to Christ, are even remotely interested in Ayalla and what he does, where he lives and would send someone after him! He thinks too much of himself to think they are even remotely interested him. Ayalla has used his public pain and notoriety to get everything he wants, including asylum. You can read an alternative opinion on Ayalla here. http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8749
*****
A "conversation" session with Gene Robinson was by invitation only for Bishops and Spouses. my trusty sidekick Hans Zeiger, who is writing brilliantly here, was told. He tried to get into an open conversation meeting to hear Robinson. He was told "no." One wonders what the bishop is going to say that would possibly exclude the media. Is there something new about homoerotic behavior that we don't already know? The whine is endless.
*****
And then there's this choice morsel from "Guardian" writer Riazat Butt about Lambeth bishops looking for a pint. Gene Robinson, the bishop of New Hampshire, is not the only prelate sampling the delights of Kent's public houses. A source close to Lambeth - a cab driver who has been shuttling purple people around - informs the "Guardian" that delegates are keen to have a pint at The Bishops Finger, a historic 16th century public house in the heart of Canterbury, and to have their photo taken outside the watering hole. The Bishops Finger is where the Canterbury Ghost Tour ends and the final tale of the Black Cat of St Dunstans is told. It also used to be Canterbury's most popular gay pub. Another cab driver remembers the crazy antics from Lambeth 1998, when bishops enjoyed a hot and cold running buffet, normally held on the final weekend to celebrate the end of the conference. "There was lots of holy water," he says. Disaster struck when, during the festivities, there was an accident involving an archbishop, a barbecue skewer and an open-toed sandal. The cabbie, who is also a trained paramedic, was called to the Kent campus to administer first aid to the injured primate.
*****
Considering the theme "Equal in God's sight: when power is abused," a session, which was closed to the public, saw a dramatization by the Riding Lights Theatre Company of Jesus' attitude toward women, Dr. Jenny Plane Te Paa, principal of the College of St. John the Evangelist in Auckland, New Zealand, told a media briefing. The drama "saw people in tears," she said. The group then heard a dramatic reading of 2 Samuel 13:1-22, in which one of David's sons, Amnon, rapes his sister, Tamar. The passage "opened up major questions of how men behave, how women behave," said Te Paa. The audience was divided along gender lines and reorganized into small groups so both men and women could speak freely.
*****
No word on the abuse of power by Episcopal Church leaders towards the diminishing Anglo-Catholics in TEC and those evangelicals who cannot get DEPO and would like to leave TEC with the properties their parishioners built and paid for. Mrs. Jefferts Schori could write a whole book, along with her attorney David Booth Beers, on the abuse of power: Chapter 1: Diocese of Virginia; Chapter 2: Diocese of San Diego; Chapter 3: Diocese of Los Angeles; Chapter 4: Diocese of California; Chapter 5: Diocese of Nthn. California; Chapter 6: Diocese of San Joaquin; Chapter 7: Diocese of Pittsburgh; Chapter 8: How I Plan to Ruin Bishop Bob Duncan's life...permanently. Chapter 9: The thrill I Got Deposing Aging, Retired Bishops. To be continued.
*****
The Episcopal News Service is churning out the news in impressive quantities. Oddly enough, none of it is controversial. It's as though the whole controversy about homosexuality that is simmering just beneath the surface and which occasionally erupts in Indaba groups is not newsworthy!
*****
Rowan Williams spoke to the bishops at Lambeth yesterday and had this to say. "At the moment, we seem often to be threatening death to each other, not offering life. What some see as confused or reckless innovation in some provinces is felt as a body-blow to the integrity of mission and a matter of literal physical risk to Christians. The reaction to this is in turn felt as an annihilating judgement on a whole local church, undermining its legitimacy and pouring scorn on its witness. We need to speak life to each other; and that means change. I've made no secret of what I think that change should be - a Covenant that recognizes the need to grow towards each other (and also recognizes that not all may choose that way). I find it hard at present to see another way forward that would avoid further disintegration. But whatever your views on this, at least ask the question : 'Having heard the other person, the other group, as fully and fairly as I can, what generous initiative can I take to break through into a new and transformed relation of communion in Christ?'"
There are some problems with this "Covenant" talk statement. First of all, there will be no covenant that all will sign off on. Whatever is cooked up here will be so weak as to offend no one, in which case it isn't worth the paper it is printed on. As far as "growing towards each other" is concerned, it is a fiction in The Episcopal Church. The orthodox and revisionists are further apart than ever and at one another's throats. It is going to get a whole lot worse with more fleeing dioceses, more depositions and with millions of dollars more spent on lawsuits. "Generous initiative" is called who wins the lawsuit and who takes home the jackpot.
*****
Had drinks with the Communications Director for the Archbishop of York, John Sentamu. The Rev. Arun Arora came into the media office and asked to see me. He turned out to be a thoroughly agreeable, born again (he was a Baptist) Christian before he became an Anglican. Raised in a Sikh/Hindu household, he became a Christian at an early age. He later studied law and got drawn into the ministry in quite a remarkable way. He is married to a curate and sees his future doing inner-city ministry!
*****
Durham Bishop Tom Wright is backing himself into a corner. The open evangelical gave a Q & A to "Christian Today" and said this:
CT: Even some of the ecumenical partners here have admitted that if they were in the Archbishop of Canterbury's shoes, they also wouldn't know what to do. How do you deal with the polar opposites in the Communion?
TW: Well, there are some polar opposites, but there are also lots of people in the shades of grey in between who are genuinely trying to listen to each other and it is frustrating because we would have thought they could have been listening for the last five years but in some cases they just seem genuinely not to have been able to do that, and if this Lambeth Conference helps people who thought they were in these polar opposite camps to listen to each other and see there are ways forward...
There are no ways forward taking the two polar opposites with us, but it isn't a case of 'either you are all the way there' or 'you are all the way here'. Nor is it a soggy, fuzzy compromise in the middle. There are some definite things that have to be said and done and the Archbishop has said Windsor and the Covenant are the way to go and that's why he's invited us to Lambeth, to help him take that path.
If we follow that through, we will find a way of keeping the great majority of the Communion on board and raising a standard to say to those who don't want to go there, look, this is actually where the rest of us are, please can't you see your way to join us. We don't want to lose people. We are not in the business of getting a big stick or whatever. We are saying this is authentic Anglicanism and we do hope you will see that with us.
The only problem with this scenario is that we already have a de facto split with GAFCON speaking for 75% of the Anglican Communion! (40 out of 55 million) If this Lambeth (Network) Conference fails to come up with anything substantive, then Wright will have mud all over his face and may be forced to either join GAFCON or the liberals...a humbling experience indeed.
*****
Walter Cardinal Kasper addressed the Lambeth Conference bishops today. VOL was favored with a translation from the Italian by Andrea Galli of the National Catholic Daily in Italy. In the press room, he told me that Kasper was deeply concerned that dialogue between the Anglican Communion and the Roman Catholic Church was seriously compromised over women's ordination and homosexuality.
"The ordination of women to the episcopate blocks substantial and definite recognition of Anglican orders with the Catholic Church. We want to go on the dialogue in a theological way but this development of this situation changes directly our purpose. It changes the level of what we are aiming for. Our dialogue will be less definitive and the character of the dialogue will be changed. It won't be sustained by the dynamic that derives from the realistic possibility for the unity which Christ wants to ask from us."
About homosexuality, Kasper quoted the catechism from the Roman Catholic Church. "We are convinced of the fact that this teaching is founded in the Old and New Testament and the fidelity to Scripture and to Apostolic tradition is absolute." Kasper cited ARCIC documents called Life in Christ. "Homosexuality is a disordered behavior. The (homosexual) activity must be condemned;, the traditional approach to homosexuality is comprehensive. A clear declaration about this theme must come from the Anglican Communion. It would give us more possibilities to offer a common witness about human sexuality and marriage and to be a witness in this painful world in which we live."
*****
IN THEIR DREAMS. The Episcopal Church said they are going to bring out a joint memo with the Sudanese in an effort to find "reconciliation" on homosexuality. Not a chance. The Sudanese scotched the idea after their archbishop came out declaratively against the behavior. The Episcopal Church, looking for middle ground, will apparently find none.
END
Hat Tips
Kendall Harmon at TitusOneNine is upset that he isn't getting credit for digging up stories from other sites on the web. TitusOneNine generally does not publish original stories like Stand Firm, for example. Generally, T19 lifts stories from newspaper websites and other news sources on the web. I've had my original thoughts lifted by other bloggers and not attributed, but you don't see me squawking. I hope that KSH isn't concerned about my small blog, but who knows? He specifically mentions "websites" rather than blogs, so maybe his concern is with others.
My policy at DCNY is to cite the original sources of stories. If that bothers Kendall Harmon, he'll just have to deal with it. My objective is to find the best stories and put them here for you to read. I thought that T19, SFIF, VirtueOnLine, Religious Intelligence and others of us on the conservative side of the Anglican world were working together, but apparently some egos feel slighted when they dig up a story and someone else posts it to another website. I think the ego part is the problem.
I'd answer Kendall's concern directly on T19, but my comments there go through a moderator since I had a little kerfuffle with Sarah Hey a few months ago. So, I don't comment on T19 any longer. If his concern is with me, he can easily email me.
My policy at DCNY is to cite the original sources of stories. If that bothers Kendall Harmon, he'll just have to deal with it. My objective is to find the best stories and put them here for you to read. I thought that T19, SFIF, VirtueOnLine, Religious Intelligence and others of us on the conservative side of the Anglican world were working together, but apparently some egos feel slighted when they dig up a story and someone else posts it to another website. I think the ego part is the problem.
I'd answer Kendall's concern directly on T19, but my comments there go through a moderator since I had a little kerfuffle with Sarah Hey a few months ago. So, I don't comment on T19 any longer. If his concern is with me, he can easily email me.
Greg Venables: We’re still not addressing the basic issue
From The Church Times:
30/07/2008 10:18:00
By Ed Beavan at the Lambeth Conference
THE PRESIDING Bishop of the Southern Cone, the Most Revd Greg Venables, said there had been meaningful dialogue at the conference, but felt the real issues had still not been discussed.
“We’re still not addressing the basic issue which is whether or not we believe the same things and consider ourselves members of the same Church, and that’s obviously the thing that has caused people to break away from their national churches.”
He said he found the method of trying to discuss issues through Bible studies frustrating.
Regarding the observations put forward by the Windsor Continuation Group, he said they were covering ground the Primates had already looked at.
“Since the Primates haven’t been able to move it along some of us don’t have much hope it will take us anywhere.
“Dar-es-Salaam put forward the idea of a pastoral council and the House of Bishops in the States didn’t want it. They want their autonomy.
“The North Americans have said they’re not going to move back and those who have left their national churches are unlikely to go back.
“Unless we talk about the real reasons why we are divided there’s little hope of putting it back together again.”
He said he felt he had made the right decision in coming to Lambeth, but felt other members of the GAFCON group had made an error in not coming.
“It looks like GAFCON is about separation, and that’s not where I want to be.
“The thing is if we’ve got beyond sitting round the table trying to talk then we’re probably past the point of no return. Let’s at least say we don’t agree with love.”
30/07/2008 10:18:00
By Ed Beavan at the Lambeth Conference
THE PRESIDING Bishop of the Southern Cone, the Most Revd Greg Venables, said there had been meaningful dialogue at the conference, but felt the real issues had still not been discussed.
“We’re still not addressing the basic issue which is whether or not we believe the same things and consider ourselves members of the same Church, and that’s obviously the thing that has caused people to break away from their national churches.”
He said he found the method of trying to discuss issues through Bible studies frustrating.
Regarding the observations put forward by the Windsor Continuation Group, he said they were covering ground the Primates had already looked at.
“Since the Primates haven’t been able to move it along some of us don’t have much hope it will take us anywhere.
“Dar-es-Salaam put forward the idea of a pastoral council and the House of Bishops in the States didn’t want it. They want their autonomy.
“The North Americans have said they’re not going to move back and those who have left their national churches are unlikely to go back.
“Unless we talk about the real reasons why we are divided there’s little hope of putting it back together again.”
He said he felt he had made the right decision in coming to Lambeth, but felt other members of the GAFCON group had made an error in not coming.
“It looks like GAFCON is about separation, and that’s not where I want to be.
“The thing is if we’ve got beyond sitting round the table trying to talk then we’re probably past the point of no return. Let’s at least say we don’t agree with love.”
Wednesday, July 30, 2008
Bp. Skip to DCNY: Follow Lambeth through our approved sites
The actual quote:
"I do encourage you to follow the Lambeth Conference on line through the web site of The Episcopal Church or through many of the links sent to you by the diocesan office last week."
Translation: Restrict your Lambeth news sources to those that will give the official or liberal spin. Spin is a word used often today. It means shading the truth.
At some point I was cut off of dionews. I didn't ask to be removed, but you know how these things go. The diocesan office doesn't appreciate alternative views. comments or criticism. I'm guessing that VirtueOnline, Stand Firm in Faith, and TitusOneNine were not on the approved list, but I'm guessing here. If someone on dionews would like to send me the approved list I'd be happy to publish it on this blog.
I'm glad you've come here to get an alternative view to the official news channels of pecusa and the Anglican Communion. There is a lot going on at Lambeth that you won't hear if you restrict your intake to the official and liberal websites. I have posted a number of stories from liberal newspapers, but also from conservative sources as well. I trust that you can pick through the coverage and make your own assessments. Unfortunately, the Bishop of DCNY doesn't trust your ability to do so. Or, he'd like you to be persuaded that pecusa is not getting hammered at Lambeth for the unbiblical and autonomous acts of the last five years. It's a shame that a bishop would be more interested in you getting the pecusa/liberal spin than the truth.
"I do encourage you to follow the Lambeth Conference on line through the web site of The Episcopal Church or through many of the links sent to you by the diocesan office last week."
Translation: Restrict your Lambeth news sources to those that will give the official or liberal spin. Spin is a word used often today. It means shading the truth.
At some point I was cut off of dionews. I didn't ask to be removed, but you know how these things go. The diocesan office doesn't appreciate alternative views. comments or criticism. I'm guessing that VirtueOnline, Stand Firm in Faith, and TitusOneNine were not on the approved list, but I'm guessing here. If someone on dionews would like to send me the approved list I'd be happy to publish it on this blog.
I'm glad you've come here to get an alternative view to the official news channels of pecusa and the Anglican Communion. There is a lot going on at Lambeth that you won't hear if you restrict your intake to the official and liberal websites. I have posted a number of stories from liberal newspapers, but also from conservative sources as well. I trust that you can pick through the coverage and make your own assessments. Unfortunately, the Bishop of DCNY doesn't trust your ability to do so. Or, he'd like you to be persuaded that pecusa is not getting hammered at Lambeth for the unbiblical and autonomous acts of the last five years. It's a shame that a bishop would be more interested in you getting the pecusa/liberal spin than the truth.
Comments on a Bishop Beckwith quote
"The early church determined that schism is caused by those who cause the split."
Wouldn't this be not just an observation, but also common sense? Yet, pecusa liberals including the Presiding Bishop would have us believe that it is the conservatives who have joined CANA, AMIA and other provinces who are the schismatics. We have the assistant bishop of Los Angeles whining that the Lambeth Conference is trying to place all the blame on pecusa.
When will pecusa take responsibility for their schismatic actions? A first step would be admitting that it was the unilateral actions of pecusa that have caused the current Anglican crisis. A second step would be to stop speaking about autonomy and start acting like being part of a Communion means being a responsible partner. It means not doing what the four instruments of communion have told us not to do. It means repentance,that is, turning away from arrogant claims of autonomy and toward accepting the terms of the broader communion community.
At this point in the Lambeth Conference it means embracing the boundaries and limits to diversity that are at the heart of the discussions about the recommendations of the Windsor Continuation Group, canon law and an Anglican Covenant.
Wouldn't this be not just an observation, but also common sense? Yet, pecusa liberals including the Presiding Bishop would have us believe that it is the conservatives who have joined CANA, AMIA and other provinces who are the schismatics. We have the assistant bishop of Los Angeles whining that the Lambeth Conference is trying to place all the blame on pecusa.
When will pecusa take responsibility for their schismatic actions? A first step would be admitting that it was the unilateral actions of pecusa that have caused the current Anglican crisis. A second step would be to stop speaking about autonomy and start acting like being part of a Communion means being a responsible partner. It means not doing what the four instruments of communion have told us not to do. It means repentance,that is, turning away from arrogant claims of autonomy and toward accepting the terms of the broader communion community.
At this point in the Lambeth Conference it means embracing the boundaries and limits to diversity that are at the heart of the discussions about the recommendations of the Windsor Continuation Group, canon law and an Anglican Covenant.
Press Conference with Bishop Peter Beckwith
Matt Kennedy reports from Lambeth for Stand Firm:
Wednesday, July 30, 2008 • 11:20 am
Bishop Peter Beckwith at an impromptu press conference on the lawn outside of the Darwin Building 3:45 pm:
I want to set a few ground rules.
Don’t bait me. I would ask that you identify yourself and your organization. I would also ask that you report accurately. If you have a question I would have you clarify because if you print what is not what I think I said I will suggest that people “consider the source” which would not be a compliment to you.
I am the Bishop of Springfield. In Illinios, in TEC, in the US.
I was born again July 31st 1940. That is when I was baptized in TEC. On the fiftieth anniversary of that occasion I called to thank my parents for what they had done for me. I was grateful that they had included me in the kingdom of God under the Lordship of Christ. Since then I have been growing in Christ under the scriptures which point directly to the Trinity, the God we worship and it talks about the Church, the Fellowship, and the sacraments we’ve been given to share together.
I was ordained a deacon on 29 June 64
A priest on Jan 6, 1965
These are special days for me. One is the feast of Sts Peter and Paul and the other is the Feast of Epiphany.
On 29 Feb 1992, consecrated a bishop
Hard to keep these straight as I get older.
I was ordained into a church that did not have women on vestries. They were not allowed to serve as delegates to diocesan synods or to represent the diocese at General Convention. I do not think we had a better church then. I do not think it was better because of that gender discrimination.
What concerns me most about the time that followed and the inclusion of women into full ministry is how we went about it. In 1974 women were ordained, the Philadelphia 11, by retired bishops, one the parent of one of the odinands. Nothing was done about that. In 76 at Gen Con, the ordinations regularized. Those 11 ordinations paved the way for WO in diocese that wanted to do it
Since that time it has become prescriptive. You are not to discriminate between male and female candidates for the priesthood. Some in TEC, as you know, do that. That is a discussion on another level and I don’t what to get into it at this time. That set the course for the behavior of TEC when it came to the ordination of non-celibate homosexuals.
That has brought us to the brink of schism and as perhaps you know 270 bishops are not here maybe more and maybe less. They, arguably, represent the majority of the AC
My journey here was roundabout. I was not gong to come for many reasons. Some was expense. What would the investment produce? Is it appropriate to sit and talk to folks who are on a different page, not simply a different page, another book, not just another book but an entirely different library. Some feel that sitting here gives credit to those who are in that other library.
But I was convicted by the Lord to come here and GAFCON and I am glad I went to both
They are different experiences, both valuable. It is good to be with people who believe the Creeds.
In TEC I do not get that sense. But here, it almost immediately became obvious to me that there are many more orthodox bishops than I expected.
I am really glad I came.
We can talk about the process, there are concerns. We have had some wonderful gatherings and I think there is progress being made on the statement. The proof is in the pudding and we will have to wait and see. It is almost an impossible task for 600 bishops to say something appropriate and helpful and encouraging and in sync with the mission of the church and the gospel of Christ in the time allotted. There is progress
Will the document be perfect? No. Will it be helpful? We hope.
A couple of days ago we were in an indaba group talking about interfaith relations. IT was mainly an opportunity to hear from bishops where Christianity is a minority
I am from Illinois, in the Midwest of the US. I too deal with interfaith relationships. We do not have many Seiks, Muslims, or Hindus, in my diocese, maybe in Chicago, but not in Springfield.
My situation is that I am dealing with interfaith relationships within TEC and the sub province, the 5th, of TEC.
We have heard talk that there are 2 gospels being preached in TEC and the AC and we have heard that clain denied. I believe the former is true and if you doubt that then read the Lambeth Witness being published here. That certainly leads me to believe that my assessment is true
There is stronger evidence.
Is Jesus Lord and Savior? Or is he friend and prophet? If he is not Lord and Savior is then whether he is friend and prophet is unimportant (?)
Is Jesus a way or our way or the is he the way?
Is truth what you think it is or is all truth God’s truth and it is our challenge to discern what that truth is?
All of these things are being said in TEC. I almost fell out of my chair in the HOB years ago when a bishop said, the church wrote the bible and the church can change it.
We cannot do that on our own? What kind of integrity would we have if we did that as merely a province?
I can go on and on. There are surely different libraries that we are living in.
The challenge of this conference is to make fundamental determinations not the least of which is: is non-celibate homosexual activity a wholesome witness within the church and to the world?
I think there is an opportunity for the WCG to point the church in one of two directions
1. It can be an inclusive Church
Or
2. it can be a church grounded in orthodox principle’s
If we ride the fence we will suffer
It is time that that choice has been made
Questions
Questions
Tim Morgan: who speaks for conservatives here?
A: I do not. I speak for myself. What I say is what I believe. I do not think there is anyone who speaks for conservatives any more than there is anyone who speaks for the institutionalists or revisionists
Q: ENS: Given what you said about the two rival gospels being preached, what do you think about the bible and mission process today, about the bishops engaging in mission with the bible
A: I thought my bible study and indaba groups were wonderful. Referencing the nibble is not enough. There must be agreement on what it is saying.
Is it a challenging document or is it a document to affirm everything I want to do?
We are all idolaters. I discovered in 03, that I had been putting TEC in front of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I committed myself not to do that any more. In 2006 I realized I was still working on that process.
I am doing a lot better.
Kallsen: you mentioned you discovered a lot of conservative bishops are here. Can you name names?
A: I could but I think you should ask them yourselves.
Q: you said “sitting on the fence” is the alternative to schism?
A: people being what they are I tank you cold say yes. However redeemed people, no. WE can be drawn together. The one thin about the kingdom of God. We cannot have it on our terms.
Tom Jackson: is it your opinion that TEC repent and If so would GACON come back
A:I would think so. Repentance means change direction;. What I am hearing is that this is not possible. A bishop yesterday said he would not sacrifice his homosexual colleagues, it sounded like a deal breaker. I believe in an inclusive church, if it were not I could not be in her. A forgiving church. I believe only in Christ do I have any place to stand
A quick story., went back to the 10th anniversary of my high school reunion…my classmates could not ebeing it. The church took me.
The only reason I would presume to do what I do is to demonstrate that if God can use me he can use anyone
Q: Then do you have any words of hope to GLBT people
A: A lifestyle may not be a wholesome witness to the church. The American church has gone on its own with he idea that they were going to just do it and if anyone has a problem with it they can just get over, it,. It is arrogance
Q: What should the church do about gay bishops?
A: we have already done it, we need to continue in conversations and not just assume that what we do is appropriate
Q: there were two provincial meetings yesterday. Do you see any sense of coming together? Do things seem to move toward a common mind
A: to be frank, I go into those meanings I go out confused. For example we were told at the first meeting or second, that the Sudanese statement was a misunderstanding and that there would be a clarification issued: ‘They do not have a problem with what we are doing.’
Has anyone seen a memo?
No. these people believe that what we do costs them lives. Do they want to get along? Yes. If we do not change will the communion continue? Questionable.
Q: you say you cannot have the gospel on your own terms, are not you suggesting that the whole church should have the gospel on your terms.
A: I have not said anything that the church has not said for 2000 years. How can you say I am making it on my terms? You say you are a bible believer. Is it about us or God?
Q: God
A: [unintelligible]
Q: yes…
A: so in the us being a promiscuous culture, is there any chance that we view sex on our terms rather than God’s terms. And maybe we need to decide, as the eniels says, whether there is a purpose to sex , god’s purpose
I am open to a discussion. I am not open to people just saying without conscience.
Q: would you say TEC is a Christian denomination?
A: A person tells me he is of Christ, I cannot debate that. Scripture is clear. God judges. We can’t. I remember that. I remember that vote very clearly. It was overwhelmingly defeated. We did not need to pass that it was said because we did it once. Imagine using that standard with worship. WE prayed once why do it again. The tenets of the faith remind us of who we are and whose we are. I think that was defeated because we will not put up with anything that interferes with the current agenda which I inclusion of LGBT in every level of the Church
For me orientation is not the issue, but the behavior. I do not care if someone us heterosexual or homosexual, I want to know what they are doing. There is a lot more misconduct among heterosexuals than homosexuals. The fact is that sex outside of marriage…a man and a woman… is the standard, God says
You want to debate, I am willing to listen. But first you have to act on it with consensus and then confirm to see who are disturbed by your action.
The early church determined that schism is caused by those who cause the split
Q: Will you align with another province if the ABC ride the fence?
A: I do not know what I am going to do other than serve Jesus. If we cannot focus on Christ, I am gong to have to do something else.
Under ordinary circumstance I would have retired 3 years ago. I have three more, max. I stayed on because I do not want people to think I can be chased off. There are not too many occasions where I have quit, I do not know what I am going to do but I hope it is responsible.
Q: Are you content with the indaba groups and the way the conference is set up, given that this is a crisis time and a once in a decade opportunity.
A: I had my own concerns when I read about it. I said there was no sense in going to that. It sounds like it is designed like the HOB.
It is important to get together but more importantly is to deal with issues; we’ll have to see. I can see it coming, I do not think we will have it tied up at the end of the week, we’ll have to see.
Q: Are you afraid that it will be difficult to replace yourself with a conservative bishops?
A: No
Q: In light of Lawrence
A: There are any number of people who could succeed me and do a better job. Hopefully I have done something they can build on and launch from.
TEC is supposed to be inclusive as long as you think what we think.
Q: Isn’t that what you are saying?
A: Not at all. I am more than willing to welcome anyone.
Someone said, how wonderful it is that people are being honest. Well, if I told you I am a thief... just because I tell you who I am may not solve the problem at all. The problem gets compared to a lot of things - divorce, circumcision. It is a moral issue.
The divorce solution was the best one for a bad situation. Is divorce condemned by Christ, Absolutely. I do not know if ay divorced person who would say otherwise.
But being divorced twice and in the HOB is not a wholesome example,
Being divorced and in charge of the same church
Q: Why are you speaking now
A: I don’t know too many who would say I am silent. I speak when I think it is important.
Q: Naughton: you mentioned the word cure: do you think homosexuality can be cured?
A: I would leave that up to them. Cure is a broader term. How did I say that?
Q: You said honesty is not a cure
A; It is not a cure to the situation. The problem is not orientation or even sexual behavior. The problem that it divides people from God and from others. The cure, let me be clear, I know of witnesses who say they have been cured. I’ll let someone else decide that. Just because I happen to be honest is not a solution.
Q: Is there any divide in the way we read scripture and does that present a problem
A: There is a problem. I do not believe a bishop can say, this is the meaning of scripture. We are called and ordained to uphold scripture.
To say that the bible is clear is not to say that it is clear in every way. People have a tendency to look for proof texts rather than how do I read this and be transformed by it. The challenge is this. I am to give up everything for Christ.
Wednesday, July 30, 2008 • 11:20 am
Bishop Peter Beckwith at an impromptu press conference on the lawn outside of the Darwin Building 3:45 pm:
I want to set a few ground rules.
Don’t bait me. I would ask that you identify yourself and your organization. I would also ask that you report accurately. If you have a question I would have you clarify because if you print what is not what I think I said I will suggest that people “consider the source” which would not be a compliment to you.
I am the Bishop of Springfield. In Illinios, in TEC, in the US.
I was born again July 31st 1940. That is when I was baptized in TEC. On the fiftieth anniversary of that occasion I called to thank my parents for what they had done for me. I was grateful that they had included me in the kingdom of God under the Lordship of Christ. Since then I have been growing in Christ under the scriptures which point directly to the Trinity, the God we worship and it talks about the Church, the Fellowship, and the sacraments we’ve been given to share together.
I was ordained a deacon on 29 June 64
A priest on Jan 6, 1965
These are special days for me. One is the feast of Sts Peter and Paul and the other is the Feast of Epiphany.
On 29 Feb 1992, consecrated a bishop
Hard to keep these straight as I get older.
I was ordained into a church that did not have women on vestries. They were not allowed to serve as delegates to diocesan synods or to represent the diocese at General Convention. I do not think we had a better church then. I do not think it was better because of that gender discrimination.
What concerns me most about the time that followed and the inclusion of women into full ministry is how we went about it. In 1974 women were ordained, the Philadelphia 11, by retired bishops, one the parent of one of the odinands. Nothing was done about that. In 76 at Gen Con, the ordinations regularized. Those 11 ordinations paved the way for WO in diocese that wanted to do it
Since that time it has become prescriptive. You are not to discriminate between male and female candidates for the priesthood. Some in TEC, as you know, do that. That is a discussion on another level and I don’t what to get into it at this time. That set the course for the behavior of TEC when it came to the ordination of non-celibate homosexuals.
That has brought us to the brink of schism and as perhaps you know 270 bishops are not here maybe more and maybe less. They, arguably, represent the majority of the AC
My journey here was roundabout. I was not gong to come for many reasons. Some was expense. What would the investment produce? Is it appropriate to sit and talk to folks who are on a different page, not simply a different page, another book, not just another book but an entirely different library. Some feel that sitting here gives credit to those who are in that other library.
But I was convicted by the Lord to come here and GAFCON and I am glad I went to both
They are different experiences, both valuable. It is good to be with people who believe the Creeds.
In TEC I do not get that sense. But here, it almost immediately became obvious to me that there are many more orthodox bishops than I expected.
I am really glad I came.
We can talk about the process, there are concerns. We have had some wonderful gatherings and I think there is progress being made on the statement. The proof is in the pudding and we will have to wait and see. It is almost an impossible task for 600 bishops to say something appropriate and helpful and encouraging and in sync with the mission of the church and the gospel of Christ in the time allotted. There is progress
Will the document be perfect? No. Will it be helpful? We hope.
A couple of days ago we were in an indaba group talking about interfaith relations. IT was mainly an opportunity to hear from bishops where Christianity is a minority
I am from Illinois, in the Midwest of the US. I too deal with interfaith relationships. We do not have many Seiks, Muslims, or Hindus, in my diocese, maybe in Chicago, but not in Springfield.
My situation is that I am dealing with interfaith relationships within TEC and the sub province, the 5th, of TEC.
We have heard talk that there are 2 gospels being preached in TEC and the AC and we have heard that clain denied. I believe the former is true and if you doubt that then read the Lambeth Witness being published here. That certainly leads me to believe that my assessment is true
There is stronger evidence.
Is Jesus Lord and Savior? Or is he friend and prophet? If he is not Lord and Savior is then whether he is friend and prophet is unimportant (?)
Is Jesus a way or our way or the is he the way?
Is truth what you think it is or is all truth God’s truth and it is our challenge to discern what that truth is?
All of these things are being said in TEC. I almost fell out of my chair in the HOB years ago when a bishop said, the church wrote the bible and the church can change it.
We cannot do that on our own? What kind of integrity would we have if we did that as merely a province?
I can go on and on. There are surely different libraries that we are living in.
The challenge of this conference is to make fundamental determinations not the least of which is: is non-celibate homosexual activity a wholesome witness within the church and to the world?
I think there is an opportunity for the WCG to point the church in one of two directions
1. It can be an inclusive Church
Or
2. it can be a church grounded in orthodox principle’s
If we ride the fence we will suffer
It is time that that choice has been made
Questions
Questions
Tim Morgan: who speaks for conservatives here?
A: I do not. I speak for myself. What I say is what I believe. I do not think there is anyone who speaks for conservatives any more than there is anyone who speaks for the institutionalists or revisionists
Q: ENS: Given what you said about the two rival gospels being preached, what do you think about the bible and mission process today, about the bishops engaging in mission with the bible
A: I thought my bible study and indaba groups were wonderful. Referencing the nibble is not enough. There must be agreement on what it is saying.
Is it a challenging document or is it a document to affirm everything I want to do?
We are all idolaters. I discovered in 03, that I had been putting TEC in front of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I committed myself not to do that any more. In 2006 I realized I was still working on that process.
I am doing a lot better.
Kallsen: you mentioned you discovered a lot of conservative bishops are here. Can you name names?
A: I could but I think you should ask them yourselves.
Q: you said “sitting on the fence” is the alternative to schism?
A: people being what they are I tank you cold say yes. However redeemed people, no. WE can be drawn together. The one thin about the kingdom of God. We cannot have it on our terms.
Tom Jackson: is it your opinion that TEC repent and If so would GACON come back
A:I would think so. Repentance means change direction;. What I am hearing is that this is not possible. A bishop yesterday said he would not sacrifice his homosexual colleagues, it sounded like a deal breaker. I believe in an inclusive church, if it were not I could not be in her. A forgiving church. I believe only in Christ do I have any place to stand
A quick story., went back to the 10th anniversary of my high school reunion…my classmates could not ebeing it. The church took me.
The only reason I would presume to do what I do is to demonstrate that if God can use me he can use anyone
Q: Then do you have any words of hope to GLBT people
A: A lifestyle may not be a wholesome witness to the church. The American church has gone on its own with he idea that they were going to just do it and if anyone has a problem with it they can just get over, it,. It is arrogance
Q: What should the church do about gay bishops?
A: we have already done it, we need to continue in conversations and not just assume that what we do is appropriate
Q: there were two provincial meetings yesterday. Do you see any sense of coming together? Do things seem to move toward a common mind
A: to be frank, I go into those meanings I go out confused. For example we were told at the first meeting or second, that the Sudanese statement was a misunderstanding and that there would be a clarification issued: ‘They do not have a problem with what we are doing.’
Has anyone seen a memo?
No. these people believe that what we do costs them lives. Do they want to get along? Yes. If we do not change will the communion continue? Questionable.
Q: you say you cannot have the gospel on your own terms, are not you suggesting that the whole church should have the gospel on your terms.
A: I have not said anything that the church has not said for 2000 years. How can you say I am making it on my terms? You say you are a bible believer. Is it about us or God?
Q: God
A: [unintelligible]
Q: yes…
A: so in the us being a promiscuous culture, is there any chance that we view sex on our terms rather than God’s terms. And maybe we need to decide, as the eniels says, whether there is a purpose to sex , god’s purpose
I am open to a discussion. I am not open to people just saying without conscience.
Q: would you say TEC is a Christian denomination?
A: A person tells me he is of Christ, I cannot debate that. Scripture is clear. God judges. We can’t. I remember that. I remember that vote very clearly. It was overwhelmingly defeated. We did not need to pass that it was said because we did it once. Imagine using that standard with worship. WE prayed once why do it again. The tenets of the faith remind us of who we are and whose we are. I think that was defeated because we will not put up with anything that interferes with the current agenda which I inclusion of LGBT in every level of the Church
For me orientation is not the issue, but the behavior. I do not care if someone us heterosexual or homosexual, I want to know what they are doing. There is a lot more misconduct among heterosexuals than homosexuals. The fact is that sex outside of marriage…a man and a woman… is the standard, God says
You want to debate, I am willing to listen. But first you have to act on it with consensus and then confirm to see who are disturbed by your action.
The early church determined that schism is caused by those who cause the split
Q: Will you align with another province if the ABC ride the fence?
A: I do not know what I am going to do other than serve Jesus. If we cannot focus on Christ, I am gong to have to do something else.
Under ordinary circumstance I would have retired 3 years ago. I have three more, max. I stayed on because I do not want people to think I can be chased off. There are not too many occasions where I have quit, I do not know what I am going to do but I hope it is responsible.
Q: Are you content with the indaba groups and the way the conference is set up, given that this is a crisis time and a once in a decade opportunity.
A: I had my own concerns when I read about it. I said there was no sense in going to that. It sounds like it is designed like the HOB.
It is important to get together but more importantly is to deal with issues; we’ll have to see. I can see it coming, I do not think we will have it tied up at the end of the week, we’ll have to see.
Q: Are you afraid that it will be difficult to replace yourself with a conservative bishops?
A: No
Q: In light of Lawrence
A: There are any number of people who could succeed me and do a better job. Hopefully I have done something they can build on and launch from.
TEC is supposed to be inclusive as long as you think what we think.
Q: Isn’t that what you are saying?
A: Not at all. I am more than willing to welcome anyone.
Someone said, how wonderful it is that people are being honest. Well, if I told you I am a thief... just because I tell you who I am may not solve the problem at all. The problem gets compared to a lot of things - divorce, circumcision. It is a moral issue.
The divorce solution was the best one for a bad situation. Is divorce condemned by Christ, Absolutely. I do not know if ay divorced person who would say otherwise.
But being divorced twice and in the HOB is not a wholesome example,
Being divorced and in charge of the same church
Q: Why are you speaking now
A: I don’t know too many who would say I am silent. I speak when I think it is important.
Q: Naughton: you mentioned the word cure: do you think homosexuality can be cured?
A: I would leave that up to them. Cure is a broader term. How did I say that?
Q: You said honesty is not a cure
A; It is not a cure to the situation. The problem is not orientation or even sexual behavior. The problem that it divides people from God and from others. The cure, let me be clear, I know of witnesses who say they have been cured. I’ll let someone else decide that. Just because I happen to be honest is not a solution.
Q: Is there any divide in the way we read scripture and does that present a problem
A: There is a problem. I do not believe a bishop can say, this is the meaning of scripture. We are called and ordained to uphold scripture.
To say that the bible is clear is not to say that it is clear in every way. People have a tendency to look for proof texts rather than how do I read this and be transformed by it. The challenge is this. I am to give up everything for Christ.
Wednesday Afternoon Press Conference
Matt Kennedy reports for Stand Firm from Lambeth:
Wednesday, July 30, 2008 • 8:11 am
Yesterday was somewhat chaotic, a slower news day to be sure, but a frustrating one. The morning press briefing was perfunctory and the afternoon press conference was fluff. There were rumors as Mr. Naughton [Episcopal Cafe blog] tells us that proved unfounded. I was, I confess, among those believing the rumors and following, shamelessly, the press horde here and there looking for bishops who never arrived.
We did, however, receive a blessing from Bishop Ackerman who was press gaggled on his way out of TEC's provincial meeting. "You all look like you need a blessing" he said and raised his hands and prayed aloud for all of the assembled media. And we did.
In any case, there were press conferences and rumors of press conferences but the end was not yet. I did, however, manage to live-blog a fringe event entitled "African Voices" sponsored by Integrity and Changing Attitude which I'm correcting throughout the day and publishing as I go.
The biggest story Tuesday was the Archbishop's presidential address which, in my opinion, represented a push-back against the direction signaled by the Windsor Continuation Group. Te archbishop called on the orthodox to recognize the push for blessing homosexual behavior as coming from within the boundaries of faithful Anglicanism and Christianity and continued to press the the Covenant as the ultimate solution to the Anglican Crisis.
Today promises to be somewhat more exciting.
I am now waiting for the afternoon press conference to start and afterwards I will run off to take part in another Anglican TV roundtable.
Archbishop Aspinal is now about to speak.
Aspinall: I know that today’s topic is not sexy, The Bible and Mission. But so many find it hard to understand why there is so much tension in the AC and a lot of it is because of the bible.
AB David Moxen from NZ who is the Archbishop of New Zealand, he is primate in NZ and has done some interesting experiments in dealing with this issue there.
Prof Gerald West is the president of a seminary in Africa. He has taken part in the writing of the bible studies here at the conference.
David will start first:
Moxen: The issue of homosexuality comes down to an issue about the bible. That is why it is engaging and why it has caused so many problems. Underneath the crisis is the question: what is our view of the bible and how do we understand the texts in it?
Understanding how we use the bible will help us get underneath the issue itself and start talking about why we understand things so differently.
In NZ we got as many people as possible as deeply as possible and as long as possible to look a this issue. We came up with 4 principles
We imagine that we are trying to build a large house.
1. There is the floor. Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God. The bible reveals Christ as the living word. The inspired words of the bible Reveal the Living Word who is Christ.
2. The entrance to the house: This is the way you take the time to understand the world the writers of the bible lived in when the bible was written. It is important to do this because often the context has changed from then to now
3. The walls. The wall is understanding the world we live in. How do we relate what God said then to what God is saying to us today?
4. What is the roof: how does the church overarch or provide the shelter for the living word and Jesus Christ?
What you want is a strong house.
There is a hermeneutics proposal, a proposal to study this worldwide. We have been devoting a lot of time to this proposal. What we found as we tried to inhabit this house in NZ is that what you want to emerge is high ground, high consensus, once you do that I think you find that you can live in it and that will give us a way of beginning to address the question of homosexuality in the church.
West: I come more from the perspective of a biblical scholar rather than a bishop. I think there are at least 4 features of interpretation that make up the process of interpretation and I think these 4 are all employed in the AC but each one can be and often is emphasized different ways.
Here they are:
1. There is in the AC a common commitment to be shaped by scripture. We agree, Anglicans, that the bible must in some way shape us. The problem is the “in what way?” question. there is variation in that commitment
2. The detail of scripture. One legacy of Anglicanism is that it has a history of being interested in the detail oft the bible. This can be approached in a variety of ways: from a social, literary, thematic, or ecclesio/theological perspective. Let me give some examples:
From a social perspective: did homosexuality as we understand it now exist in the biblical world? This is an important question if you want to apply what was written then to our own context? Are we talking about the same thing?
From a literary perspective, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. If you look at what happens there in that story you note that it takes place after Abraham has entertained 3 angels.. If that is the true, then the problem in Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality but inhospitality as demonstrated in male rape
From a literary perspective, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. If you look at what happens there in that story you note that it takes place after Abraham has entertained 3 angels.. If that is the true, then the problem in Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality but inhospitality as demonstrated in male rape
Now what that means is that in terms of the literary narrative it is a narrative of hospitality.
Thematic: to what extent can one find a theme dealing with human sexuality and if so would we include the texts dealing with homosexuality in that line? Does it fall in the same line as incest and adultery and all of the sexual sins that we find? Some would draw the theme line different
3. A common commitment among Anglicans is to bring our contexts into engagement with Scripture. In the South African contexts we think what should be emphasized is HIV AIDS. The self-select session here on that topic was attended by one bishop and me and five presenters. The Lambeth conference is consumed by issues of sexuality. What you think important in your context shapes your engagement with scripture.
4. Ecclesio/theologcal framework…what holds the bible together for you? Were you evangelized by evangelicals, Anglo Catholics, or liberals? This will shape who you are and how you interpret the bible.
What is exciting to me and I will conclude with this, is the participatory nature of this conference. For the first time we are able to share where we stand in each of these four areas with each other and begin to understand why we stand in different places, this is valuable time.
Missed a number of questions because I asked my own:
Me: I have a question for Dr. West. Would you say that the author of the NT book of Jude was incorrect when he wrote this about Sodom and Gamorrah, “just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire…” that was from verse 7. Would you say that the writer of Jude got the context wrong?
A: No not at all, I think he was referring to the sin of inhospitality.
Me: When he uses the phrase “sexual immorality”?
A: Yes, that was the way they were being inhospitable.
Q: To Professor West, the points you have highlighted, you seem to miss out on tradition. The bible is read in the context of tradition and leaving it out can also jeopardize ecumenical dialog.
Archbishop: I would include that in my image of the roof; the overarching canopy which is the Church
West: The excitement of the moment is that we are able to engage with tradition. The Anglican Communion is no longer what it used to be. It is changing.
Q: Is it your sense that there are widely different understandings of the bible and interpretation and if so how do we get any sense that the bible can be authoritative over such a wide range?
West: I do not think our understandings of the bible or interpretation are that widely different. That is the claim. but actually the same process of trying to understand and be shaped by the bible is happening all around the world. Everyone has their own process of making sense of the bible. They are all doing the same thing, so those who claim their process takes the bible more seriously are just trying to stamp their feet a little harder.
Archbishop: I should say that in the 39 articles it makes clear that that bible is the primary source of authority and that all the church does must be tested by it. We will not depart from that principle.
Q: for the archbishop: I am confused about the process that took place in NZ in the 1998 conference. The 98 Conference made it clear that the onus is on those who want to change the teaching on sexuality. They had to prove the point. They had the burden. Are you now saying all arguments are equal?
A: Well, what we are doing is we are going back to first principles about the way we are going to understand the bible. We are wiping all of that away and getting under the various understandings to get at the question from the level of how we read the bible and the sitting together under the Spirit to see where the spirit leads us through scholarly engagement
Q: To Professor west: What do you think of Lambeth 1.10?
Long pause…
A: West: I don’t have a clear position on 1:10 personally.
Q: has the church been negligent about the rate of biblical education, has the understanding of the bible been more advanced in some places of the world than in others?
A: archbishop: I do not ink there is a quality control way to grade the difference.
A: Professor West: You have raised a good point that should be taken forward. In the South African context, the bible was used to support Apartheid and the liberation struggle. We embrace the ambiguity of the bible; that it is not self-evident and we struggle to find ways it can be life-giving.
end
Wednesday, July 30, 2008 • 8:11 am
Yesterday was somewhat chaotic, a slower news day to be sure, but a frustrating one. The morning press briefing was perfunctory and the afternoon press conference was fluff. There were rumors as Mr. Naughton [Episcopal Cafe blog] tells us that proved unfounded. I was, I confess, among those believing the rumors and following, shamelessly, the press horde here and there looking for bishops who never arrived.
We did, however, receive a blessing from Bishop Ackerman who was press gaggled on his way out of TEC's provincial meeting. "You all look like you need a blessing" he said and raised his hands and prayed aloud for all of the assembled media. And we did.
In any case, there were press conferences and rumors of press conferences but the end was not yet. I did, however, manage to live-blog a fringe event entitled "African Voices" sponsored by Integrity and Changing Attitude which I'm correcting throughout the day and publishing as I go.
The biggest story Tuesday was the Archbishop's presidential address which, in my opinion, represented a push-back against the direction signaled by the Windsor Continuation Group. Te archbishop called on the orthodox to recognize the push for blessing homosexual behavior as coming from within the boundaries of faithful Anglicanism and Christianity and continued to press the the Covenant as the ultimate solution to the Anglican Crisis.
Today promises to be somewhat more exciting.
I am now waiting for the afternoon press conference to start and afterwards I will run off to take part in another Anglican TV roundtable.
Archbishop Aspinal is now about to speak.
Aspinall: I know that today’s topic is not sexy, The Bible and Mission. But so many find it hard to understand why there is so much tension in the AC and a lot of it is because of the bible.
AB David Moxen from NZ who is the Archbishop of New Zealand, he is primate in NZ and has done some interesting experiments in dealing with this issue there.
Prof Gerald West is the president of a seminary in Africa. He has taken part in the writing of the bible studies here at the conference.
David will start first:
Moxen: The issue of homosexuality comes down to an issue about the bible. That is why it is engaging and why it has caused so many problems. Underneath the crisis is the question: what is our view of the bible and how do we understand the texts in it?
Understanding how we use the bible will help us get underneath the issue itself and start talking about why we understand things so differently.
In NZ we got as many people as possible as deeply as possible and as long as possible to look a this issue. We came up with 4 principles
We imagine that we are trying to build a large house.
1. There is the floor. Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God. The bible reveals Christ as the living word. The inspired words of the bible Reveal the Living Word who is Christ.
2. The entrance to the house: This is the way you take the time to understand the world the writers of the bible lived in when the bible was written. It is important to do this because often the context has changed from then to now
3. The walls. The wall is understanding the world we live in. How do we relate what God said then to what God is saying to us today?
4. What is the roof: how does the church overarch or provide the shelter for the living word and Jesus Christ?
What you want is a strong house.
There is a hermeneutics proposal, a proposal to study this worldwide. We have been devoting a lot of time to this proposal. What we found as we tried to inhabit this house in NZ is that what you want to emerge is high ground, high consensus, once you do that I think you find that you can live in it and that will give us a way of beginning to address the question of homosexuality in the church.
West: I come more from the perspective of a biblical scholar rather than a bishop. I think there are at least 4 features of interpretation that make up the process of interpretation and I think these 4 are all employed in the AC but each one can be and often is emphasized different ways.
Here they are:
1. There is in the AC a common commitment to be shaped by scripture. We agree, Anglicans, that the bible must in some way shape us. The problem is the “in what way?” question. there is variation in that commitment
2. The detail of scripture. One legacy of Anglicanism is that it has a history of being interested in the detail oft the bible. This can be approached in a variety of ways: from a social, literary, thematic, or ecclesio/theological perspective. Let me give some examples:
From a social perspective: did homosexuality as we understand it now exist in the biblical world? This is an important question if you want to apply what was written then to our own context? Are we talking about the same thing?
From a literary perspective, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. If you look at what happens there in that story you note that it takes place after Abraham has entertained 3 angels.. If that is the true, then the problem in Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality but inhospitality as demonstrated in male rape
From a literary perspective, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. If you look at what happens there in that story you note that it takes place after Abraham has entertained 3 angels.. If that is the true, then the problem in Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality but inhospitality as demonstrated in male rape
Now what that means is that in terms of the literary narrative it is a narrative of hospitality.
Thematic: to what extent can one find a theme dealing with human sexuality and if so would we include the texts dealing with homosexuality in that line? Does it fall in the same line as incest and adultery and all of the sexual sins that we find? Some would draw the theme line different
3. A common commitment among Anglicans is to bring our contexts into engagement with Scripture. In the South African contexts we think what should be emphasized is HIV AIDS. The self-select session here on that topic was attended by one bishop and me and five presenters. The Lambeth conference is consumed by issues of sexuality. What you think important in your context shapes your engagement with scripture.
4. Ecclesio/theologcal framework…what holds the bible together for you? Were you evangelized by evangelicals, Anglo Catholics, or liberals? This will shape who you are and how you interpret the bible.
What is exciting to me and I will conclude with this, is the participatory nature of this conference. For the first time we are able to share where we stand in each of these four areas with each other and begin to understand why we stand in different places, this is valuable time.
Missed a number of questions because I asked my own:
Me: I have a question for Dr. West. Would you say that the author of the NT book of Jude was incorrect when he wrote this about Sodom and Gamorrah, “just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire…” that was from verse 7. Would you say that the writer of Jude got the context wrong?
A: No not at all, I think he was referring to the sin of inhospitality.
Me: When he uses the phrase “sexual immorality”?
A: Yes, that was the way they were being inhospitable.
Q: To Professor West, the points you have highlighted, you seem to miss out on tradition. The bible is read in the context of tradition and leaving it out can also jeopardize ecumenical dialog.
Archbishop: I would include that in my image of the roof; the overarching canopy which is the Church
West: The excitement of the moment is that we are able to engage with tradition. The Anglican Communion is no longer what it used to be. It is changing.
Q: Is it your sense that there are widely different understandings of the bible and interpretation and if so how do we get any sense that the bible can be authoritative over such a wide range?
West: I do not think our understandings of the bible or interpretation are that widely different. That is the claim. but actually the same process of trying to understand and be shaped by the bible is happening all around the world. Everyone has their own process of making sense of the bible. They are all doing the same thing, so those who claim their process takes the bible more seriously are just trying to stamp their feet a little harder.
Archbishop: I should say that in the 39 articles it makes clear that that bible is the primary source of authority and that all the church does must be tested by it. We will not depart from that principle.
Q: for the archbishop: I am confused about the process that took place in NZ in the 1998 conference. The 98 Conference made it clear that the onus is on those who want to change the teaching on sexuality. They had to prove the point. They had the burden. Are you now saying all arguments are equal?
A: Well, what we are doing is we are going back to first principles about the way we are going to understand the bible. We are wiping all of that away and getting under the various understandings to get at the question from the level of how we read the bible and the sitting together under the Spirit to see where the spirit leads us through scholarly engagement
Q: To Professor west: What do you think of Lambeth 1.10?
Long pause…
A: West: I don’t have a clear position on 1:10 personally.
Q: has the church been negligent about the rate of biblical education, has the understanding of the bible been more advanced in some places of the world than in others?
A: archbishop: I do not ink there is a quality control way to grade the difference.
A: Professor West: You have raised a good point that should be taken forward. In the South African context, the bible was used to support Apartheid and the liberation struggle. We embrace the ambiguity of the bible; that it is not self-evident and we struggle to find ways it can be life-giving.
end
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