Friday, November 07, 2008

Obama and the Gay Bishop: 'Three Private Meetings'

Via VirtueOnline:

by Ruth Gledhill
The Times of London
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2008/11/barack-obama-an.html

November 6, 2008

Read on to find out why Barack Obama sought out gay Bishop Gene Robinson not once but three times on the campaign trail for private talks.

Today I had the chance to discuss the US election with Bishop Gene Robinson, who is briefly in London for the annual Stonewall awards where he is nominated as 'Hero of the Year'.

I took a tape which means you can if you wish listen one part of the interview or to another part of the interview yourself. Or read on for the full transcript that I've summarised also in a news story for The Times.

First, we discussed the present difficulties in the Anglican Communion. The Bishop said he felt the covenant was being pushed towards a document that would deal more with mission than discipline. He said he believed a second province in the US would be a non-starter with The Episcopal Church but that it might happen if the Archbishop of Canterbury used his authority to recognise it. Gafcon might also feel it had the authority to do it anyway, he believed.

'We are in uncharted waters here. If such a thing were desirable who has the authority to do it and where does that end? Do we then start having parallel churches, not only in so-called liberal provinces for the conservatives, but do we start liberal parallel provinces in conservative ones? Once you start that process I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle.'

Regarding the effect of the credit crunch on Anglican provinces, he said the full consequences of the financial crisis will 'trickle up'. TEC dioceses and parishes are now doing stewardship campaigns. After that, dioceses will know better the extent of any shortfall and how this will affect giving to the church at national level.

But he was actually most interesting on his private meetings with President-elect Barack Obama. Bishop Gene said: 'I had the great honour of having three private conversations with him.' These took place in May and June last year and were not initiated by Robinson.

'I was actually sought out by his campaign. He had quite an extraordinary outreach to the religious community. By that I mean all religious communities. And through those contacts I had the opportunity to speak to him. And I must say I don't know if it is an expression here in England or not but he is the genuine article. I think he is exactly who he says he is. And I serve on the church pension fund board at the national level and I serve with someone who has been his friend since Barack was in college and says what you see is exactly who he has been for as long as I've known him.

'He is impressive, he's smart, he is an amazing listener. For someone who's called on to speak all the time when he asks you a question it is not for show, he is actually wanting to know what you think and listens, or at least gives you that impression. I think we've had eight years of someone who has listened to almost no-one. So the thought of having a president who gathers the best people around him and then listens to what they have to say to him, especially the things he doesn't want to hear I think he will be open to, that is very refreshing. So I'm absolutely delighted about him.

'To see the tears in the eyes of African-Americans, it's just been a profoundly, I would say religious, experience, very exciting.'

I asked him how they greeted each other.

Bishop Robinson said: 'The first words out of his mouth were, 'Well you're certainly causing a lot of trouble.' My response to him was, 'Well that makes two of us.'

They did not discuss Anglican issues in great depth. 'He certainly indicated his broad and deep support for the full civil rights for gay and lesbian people but frankly we talked more about - I pressed him on the Millennium Development Goals. I wanted to know whether he thought more about them than just they were a good idea but whether he had any intention of pushing for their full funding and so on.'

The bishop was guarded about Obama's response to this. He had seemed committed 'but now I think given the economic crisis everything is up for grabs.... my own hope is that the US will not shirk its responsibilities in aid to the developing world. That's going to be a hard-fought fight not, just with President Obama but all the powers in Washington.'

They discussed the place of religion and faith in the US.

'The thing that I liked about him and what he said on this issue is that he and I would agree about the rightful place of religion vis-a-vis the secular state. That is to say, we don't impose our religious values on the secular state because God said so. Our faith informs our own values and then we take those values into the civil market place, the civil discourse, and then you argue for them based on the constitution. You don't say to someone, you must believe this because this is what God believes. I think God gives us our values and then we argue for those on the basis of the constitution and care of our neighbour.

'And I think the Bush administration got very very close to the line if not going over the line in terms of offering support to religious-based groups who were using their social service arms to proselytise and evangelise which I would say is inappropriate.'

They did not discuss Israel. 'My sense is that the most important thing about that is that he understands that the United States needs to be a player and that there probably will be no solution to the Israel Palestinian problem unless the United States forces it and acts as a broker.'

Bishop Robinson continued: 'I don't think either side will operate in good faith unless they are forced to much as Jimmy Carter brokered the peace between Israel and Egypt.' The bishop said: 'If we were able to buy the peace in Israel and Palestine I think that would be a very good use of our money.'

He was surprised by what a towering figure the senator is, literally as well as metaphorically.

'The amazing thing is that Barack is he is so tall. You don't notice it on television because Michelle is as tall as he is. I don't know his real height but it must be 6 foot four or five. He is very Lincolnesque in that way. He's just this long and lean, string bean kind of human being.

'He has no hesitation whatsoever to talk about his faith. I find that remarkable not only in a politician but also in a Democrat. For years it's only been Republicans who wanted to talk about religion. All the Democratic candidates felt disposed to do so this year. It's just one of the interesting things about this campaign. It is not a stretch for him.'

Regarding the repeated suggestions of Obama's leanings towards Islam, Bishop Robinson has his own theory. 'I don't know how you could ever prove it. But because some of the claims have been so outrageous - that he's a Muslim, that he wasn't born in the United States, his associations with various incendiary people - I have to wonder if because people couldn't outright say they weren't going to vote for a black man that this became a way of objecting to his presidency, that that was more defensible than racist attacks.'

They discussed what it was like to be 'first' in something - first gay bishop, potentially first black president.

Bishop Gene said: 'One of the things Barack and I did talk about when we were together was just the experience of being first and the danger of that and we talked about being demonised by one side and, I don't know if the word is angelicised, by the other. Expectations are laid on you both negative and positive and neither are true. And the importance of remaining centred and grounded in the middle of that so that you don't begin to believe either your negative press or your positive press.'

They touched also on security risks. 'We did not talk about assassination specifically but we did talk about the physical risks to ploughing new territory. I don't think anyone can have observed life in America in the last century without noting that we tend to be a more violent society than most and that the availability of weapons and the willingness of some people to use them present enormous challenges. At the end of the day you have to decide whether or not you are going to be paralysed by threats and by violent possibilities or whether you are just move on and do what you feel called to do despite the risks.'

END

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