HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD MAKE CHRISTIANITY REALLY ATTRACTIVE?
If you didn’t have to believe all that weird crap like the existence of God or miracles or rising from the dead, that kind of thing:
Consider what this might be like. A secular Christian—I could be a candidate, for example—might go to church for the beautiful or traditional or inspiring music. The church building might be a draw, whether it were awe-inspiring or quaint. Sermons about finding the right path or avoiding the shallow temptations in life or even Bible stories might be edifying. Services could mark the important events in life such as births, marriages, and deaths. Whether the secular Christian went weekly or only a few times a year, the community of good people, eager to help others, would be welcoming. It might give focus to good works, providing opportunities for volunteering and direction for charitable giving.
But—and here’s the interesting bit—secular Christians would reject the supernatural origin of Christianity, would be open about their atheism, and would be accepted within the church community.
The Christian church has millions of members who are secular Christians except for the last bit.
They’ve lost their faith in the supernatural claims, they’ve admitted this to themselves, but they can’t come out to their church community. The concept of a secular Christian would allow these people to keep their community, charitable, and even family connections.
I’m well aware of two things. That’s been going on in mainline Protestantism for the last few decades. And we already have an arrangement like that; it’s called Unitarianism. But I guess some Episcopalians think that sitting through arcane ceremonies for no particular reason isn’t weird because a few days ago, they kicked this idea around in the comments section at Naughton’s.
A woman named Harriet Baber led things off. Dr. Baber teaches philosophy at San Diego State University. Remember that fact because there will be a quiz.
It’s already like this. And “cultural Christians”–heck, Bishop Spong publicly repudiated theism. And lay cultural Christians are hardly closeted: no one asks you about your religious convictions in the Episcopal Church. No one announces that they don’t believe in God because no one would announce that they do.
The important thing is to get it out to the outside world that no one cares what they believe or don’t believe–that they can in honesty enjoy the ceremonies and use the facilities.
Apparently there are a few names even in Sardis because a guy named Nikolaus Bergen thinks the whole idea is kind of goofy.
I hope you are being facetious, Ms. Baber!
The problem with this is that Jews are a race, an ethnicity. One is a Jew by birth. Thus one can be a “secular” Jew. What is presented here with regard to “secular” Christians is simply nonsense.
Sometimes “open-mindedness” just means that the only thing going on upstairs is a draft!
The good doctor didn’t like that response at all.
@Nicolaous Bergen: not “Ms.” if you please–detestable made-up title conservatives like you use to ridicule those of use with whom you don’t agree–and I’m not being facetious. Try “Dr.” or “Professor” and @#$%^&* you.
Meeeeeeeeee-YOWWWWW!!! That Ph.D cost me a lot of money, pal, so RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAY!!
Put down you pencils, class, we’re going to have a pop quiz. I did warn you so here goes.
In what subject did Ms., excuse me, Dr. Baber receive her Ph,D and what subject does she teach at San Diego State? Anyone? Fuinseoig?
Fuinseoig, you and I both know that no university in the world offers a doctorate in pheromones. Katherine? No, a Ph.D in Phlebotomy has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. Good gracious, Kathleen Lundquist, what possible good would a doctorate in the history of Phoenix, Arizona do anyone at all?
Ed the Roman? Okay, phrenology isn’t it but it’s close. The fact of the matter is that Ms., excuse me, Dr. Baber, whose degree is in philosophy, could have majored in any of those subjects and done less damage to logic and human reason that Ms., excuse me, Dr. Baber does in the next two paragraphs.
I’d just like to see as many warm bodies in church as possible. As far as what they believe, metaphysics isn’t everybody’s cup of tea. And many, perhaps most, people think that theism commits them to implausible, crude, anti-scientific claims about how the physical world works. I don’t think we should exclude them. And, even beyond that, I don’t see why atheists should be excluded from enjoying the goodies of religiosity.
On the other hand I don’t think that clergy should be atheists. We live in a world where religious belief is trashed, déclassé, not acceptable in polite company. And it seems to me that one of the essential jobs of clergy is to support us who are religious believers, to get it across that religious isn’t just stupid, isn’t just for the uneducated lower classes, i.e. for Evangelicals.
Translation: as long as your pledge checks clear, believe whatever you want. Nobody’s ever going to ask questions.
Consider what this might be like. A secular Christian—I could be a candidate, for example—might go to church for the beautiful or traditional or inspiring music. The church building might be a draw, whether it were awe-inspiring or quaint. Sermons about finding the right path or avoiding the shallow temptations in life or even Bible stories might be edifying. Services could mark the important events in life such as births, marriages, and deaths. Whether the secular Christian went weekly or only a few times a year, the community of good people, eager to help others, would be welcoming. It might give focus to good works, providing opportunities for volunteering and direction for charitable giving.
But—and here’s the interesting bit—secular Christians would reject the supernatural origin of Christianity, would be open about their atheism, and would be accepted within the church community.
The Christian church has millions of members who are secular Christians except for the last bit.
They’ve lost their faith in the supernatural claims, they’ve admitted this to themselves, but they can’t come out to their church community. The concept of a secular Christian would allow these people to keep their community, charitable, and even family connections.
I’m well aware of two things. That’s been going on in mainline Protestantism for the last few decades. And we already have an arrangement like that; it’s called Unitarianism. But I guess some Episcopalians think that sitting through arcane ceremonies for no particular reason isn’t weird because a few days ago, they kicked this idea around in the comments section at Naughton’s.
A woman named Harriet Baber led things off. Dr. Baber teaches philosophy at San Diego State University. Remember that fact because there will be a quiz.
It’s already like this. And “cultural Christians”–heck, Bishop Spong publicly repudiated theism. And lay cultural Christians are hardly closeted: no one asks you about your religious convictions in the Episcopal Church. No one announces that they don’t believe in God because no one would announce that they do.
The important thing is to get it out to the outside world that no one cares what they believe or don’t believe–that they can in honesty enjoy the ceremonies and use the facilities.
Apparently there are a few names even in Sardis because a guy named Nikolaus Bergen thinks the whole idea is kind of goofy.
I hope you are being facetious, Ms. Baber!
The problem with this is that Jews are a race, an ethnicity. One is a Jew by birth. Thus one can be a “secular” Jew. What is presented here with regard to “secular” Christians is simply nonsense.
Sometimes “open-mindedness” just means that the only thing going on upstairs is a draft!
The good doctor didn’t like that response at all.
@Nicolaous Bergen: not “Ms.” if you please–detestable made-up title conservatives like you use to ridicule those of use with whom you don’t agree–and I’m not being facetious. Try “Dr.” or “Professor” and @#$%^&* you.
Meeeeeeeeee-YOWWWWW!!! That Ph.D cost me a lot of money, pal, so RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAY!!
Put down you pencils, class, we’re going to have a pop quiz. I did warn you so here goes.
In what subject did Ms., excuse me, Dr. Baber receive her Ph,D and what subject does she teach at San Diego State? Anyone? Fuinseoig?
Fuinseoig, you and I both know that no university in the world offers a doctorate in pheromones. Katherine? No, a Ph.D in Phlebotomy has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. Good gracious, Kathleen Lundquist, what possible good would a doctorate in the history of Phoenix, Arizona do anyone at all?
Ed the Roman? Okay, phrenology isn’t it but it’s close. The fact of the matter is that Ms., excuse me, Dr. Baber, whose degree is in philosophy, could have majored in any of those subjects and done less damage to logic and human reason that Ms., excuse me, Dr. Baber does in the next two paragraphs.
I’d just like to see as many warm bodies in church as possible. As far as what they believe, metaphysics isn’t everybody’s cup of tea. And many, perhaps most, people think that theism commits them to implausible, crude, anti-scientific claims about how the physical world works. I don’t think we should exclude them. And, even beyond that, I don’t see why atheists should be excluded from enjoying the goodies of religiosity.
On the other hand I don’t think that clergy should be atheists. We live in a world where religious belief is trashed, déclassé, not acceptable in polite company. And it seems to me that one of the essential jobs of clergy is to support us who are religious believers, to get it across that religious isn’t just stupid, isn’t just for the uneducated lower classes, i.e. for Evangelicals.
Translation: as long as your pledge checks clear, believe whatever you want. Nobody’s ever going to ask questions.
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