This afternoon I was doing some sermon research at Wikipedia (I know, not always a reliable source) and I came upon the article on pecusa. This is from an Article on The Episcopal Church. This is from the original section under the title Membership:
Total membership of active baptized members of exactly 2,369,476 as of 2007 is counted by the Episcopal Church from all submitted parochial reports for 2005 - the latest year available.[57]
In recent years many mainline denominations have experienced a decline in membership.[58] Once changes in how membership is counted are taken into consideration, the Episcopal Church's membership has been flat.[59][60][61][62][63]
There are a number of problems with this entry. First, in an article cited in this section in footnote 61, the membership number given is not "exactly 2,369,476." The figure in The Christian Century is 2,205,376. Second, that figure is from 2005, not 2007. Third, the suggestion that changes in membership counting account for essentially no change in membership numbers (i.e. flat) is clearly erroneous. I edited this information several times, with my edits being removed within minutes. When I checked this out I was informed that there was an "edit conflict." When I further checked into this, I found that I was blocked from continuing to edit, with this message linked:
Block warning: You can read pages, but you are blocked from editing and changing them.
You have been blocked from editing, or tried to edit a page to which you do not have editing access. [my ip address] (your account, your IP address or a range of addresses) was blocked by Angr for the following reason (see our blocking policy):
continuing to remove sourced info and add unsourced info
As a Wikipedia contributor, I used my edit privileges to continue to change the entry based on the information given in The Christian Century article. Over and over again my use of the TCC term "precipitous" and my edit was removed within minutes. The reason given for my edits being removed was because I hadn't sourced my material. So, I learned how to do footnotes and I sourced my material. My edits were still removed.
This is the sentence I inserted after removing the sentence about a flat membership:
Membership declines for the Episcopal Church have been described as "precipitous" in one major ecumenical publication.
"Precipitous is from a quote attributed to Kirk Hadaway, the director of research for pecusa. After going back and forth with my edit being removed and my reinsertion of it, another paragraph was added. The full entry as amended:
Total membership of active baptized members of exactly 2,369,476 as of 2007 is counted by the Episcopal Church from all submitted parochial reports for 2005 - the latest year available.[57]
In recent years many mainline denominations have experienced a decline in membership.[58] Once changes in how membership is counted are taken into consideration, the Episcopal Church's membership has been flat.[59][60][61][62][63]
“ It is easy to look at the unadjusted membership trends for the Episcopal Church and say the sky is falling. But to do so would be irresponsible and inaccurate. A more sober look at the statistics (membership and attendance) reveals that we have reached a plateau of sorts—from which we can slide into a new decline or begin growing again.[64]
After more back and forth edits, I was directed to a Wikipedia talk page. There I discovered that I'm not the first one who has attempted to edit the membership information. Here's the first entry on the talk page under membership:
Wassupwestcoast, why are you reverting my changes regarding membership? The current statement that membership is flat for the last few decades, with no ASA discussion (far better indicator) and people removing discussion of age trends is highly biased. Even pro-TEC folks don't believe this distorted view. There can be no doubt that we have shrunk. The only question is how much and what is the most accurate measure. --User:ReasonandRevelation 21:56, 12 September 2007
There is a counter-argument that you can read on Wikipedia. Here is the reply:
I understand your points, but even the most ardent pro-TEC supporters like Louie Crew acknowledge that TEC has hemorrhaged members over the last 40 years and TEC itself admits drops since 2003, as my links (and the links previously posted) pointed out. While there may be an argument that there is more to the story, the current discussion of membership is completely biased in favor of TEC (and I am an Episcopalian, but I am pretty tired of the spin).
Shoot, this year alone the Virginia secessions are larger than several dozen whole dioceses. I’d like to see some support for the proposition that it has been flat since 2003. And it’s not a post hoc fallacy to suppose that it was partly based on Gene Robinson. His consecration is the single most disruptive thing to happen to our church in my lifetime. I have never been in a Wikipedia edit war, and I admit that I am not that committed, but it is a shame that ideology trumps objectivity. The edits I made were incredibly cautious and arguably don't even begin to tell the story of the exodus that has happened in the last 3.5 years.
I don't know where you are getting your stats from, but just look at TEC's own self-reported stats: 846,000 in 2002 (the year before Robinson), and 787,000 ASA in 2005. Conspicuously absent from TEC is official reporting from 2006, even though we're almost done with 2007, and, as noted above, 2007 has witnessed a hemorrhage of whole churches leaving. Furthermore, this is on the back of major declines in attendance in the last 40 years.
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/documents/Average_Sunday_Attendance_1995-05_by_Domestic_Diocese.pdf
It's not accurate to chalk these major numbers changes to methodology. Also relevant to my church's story is the alarming increase in the average age, now somewhere around 57.
Respectfully,--ReasonandRevelation.
I have been accused of violating the 3 revert rule, with no mention of the fact that two others who have restored the original erroneous information have violated the same rule. Here's my last post to the talk page:
Your selective use of the 3 revert rule is interesting. My first edit was removed because I didn't cite sources. When I cited sources that were already being used, my edit was still removed. What you call dated is more recent information than what was cited previously for the 2.3 million number and my figure is from the director of research for pecusa (btw, I use pecusa because it is the official name and it identifies the sectarian nature of recent innovations. You may not remember the lawsuit that 815 filed or threatened to file against Bp. Wantland in order to retain this name). The fact that you are clinging to outdated numbers speaks volumes. This will all be settled when pecusa releases the 2006 figures. This argument is not about accuracy, because if it was you would acknowledge the most recent figures. It is about maintaining a position not founded in fact - that position is that pecusa is not losing thousands of members a year. pecusa is losing thousands of members a year and your attempts to cover this up will ultimately fail.
Obviously the last quote in the Wikipedia article section on membership from The Christian Century story is intended to buttress the claims of the second paragraph, but the problem with this is that Hadaway is talking about the numbers pre-2003. Again, he is the one who describes the 2003-2005 numbers as a precipitous drop. So I edited the second paragraph once again, with more information from the same article, as well as restoring the correct 2005 membership total in the first paragraph. Read it here (with sources), because no doubt it is already gone from the Wikipedia article:
Membership declines for the Episcopal Church have been described as "precipitous" in one major ecumenical publication. Factors such as a low birth rate and an aging church population as well as fleeing conservatives have contributed to the membership decline. Losses in the Episcopal Church have accelerated in recent years with a decline of 115,000 from 2003-2005.
Here's my last attempt (with sources):
Total membership of active baptized members of 2,205,376 according to Kirk Hadaway, the Director of Research of the Episcopal Church. [http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=2566 The Christian Century "Episcopal membership loss 'precipitous'" Nov 2006]
In recent years many mainline denominations have experienced a decline in membership.[http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_60792_ENG_HTM.htm Mainline Protestant churches no longer dominate] Membership declines for the Episcopal Church have been described as "precipitous" in one major ecumenical publication. Factors such as a low birth rate and an aging church population as well as fleeing conservatives have contributed to the membership decline. Losses in the Episcopal Church have accelerated in recent years with a decline of 115,000 from 2003-2005.[http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=2566 The Christian Century "Episcopal membership loss 'precipitous'" Nov 2006]
name=fastfacts2005>[http://www.episcopalchurch.org/documents/Domestic_FAST_FACTS_2005.pdf Episcopal Fast Facts: 2005][http://www.episcopalchurch.org/documents/Text_Summary_of_Episcopal_Statistics_2005.pdf Overview of Membership, Attendance and Giving Trends in the Episcopal Church][http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=2566 The Christian Century "Episcopal membership loss 'precipitous'" Nov 2006][http://www.episcopalchurch.org/documents/2005_Red_Book_Table_of_Statistics_by_Prov_Diocese.pdf Table of Statistics of the Episcopal Church From 2005 Parochial Reports. Source: The General Convention Office as of January 2007]
Speaking about membership trends before 2003, Hadaway says, {{cquote| It is easy to look at the unadjusted membership trends for the Episcopal Church and say the sky is falling. But to do so would be irresponsible and inaccurate. A more sober look at the statistics (membership and attendance) reveals that we have reached a plateau of sorts—from which we can slide into a new decline or begin growing again.[http://www.episcopalchurch.org/documents/2004GrowthReport(1).pdf Is the Episcopal Church Growing (or Declining)? by by C. Kirk Hadaway Director of Research, The Episcopal Church Center]}}Since 2003, the membership losses of 115,000 demonstrate that a slide into new decline has begun.[http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=2566 The Christian Century "Episcopal membership loss 'precipitous'" Nov 2006]
There is so much proof of the dishonesty of pecusa that you don't need another example. Still, you would think that they'd be embarrassed by the public display of their dishonesty.
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